Behind the Music with Blue October: Overcoming Addiction and Embracing Life

0:05 Hey, you're listening to Adventure on W4CY Radio. This is the Pipe Man here on the Adventure's Pipe Man W4CY Radio. And I'm excited about our next guest because I don't know about his music, but he's cool as shit. Thank you, Jesus. Let's welcome Justin from Blue October. How are you? How are you doing, buddy? I think it's kind of ironic that I'm interviewing you in October. Man, that's crazy, bro.

0:46 That's insane. Hold on. There it is. And, you know, my birthday was Sunday. Whoa, whoa, whoa. The therapy was like my birthday present. Wait, when was your birthday? What date? October 11th. That's hot. There you go. See? Our drummer's was October 8th. Nice. Yeah, but yours is better because it's 11. It goes up to 11, man. I agree with that. 11's more than 8.

1:29 Your drummer's been foiled because he didn't get the 11th. Oh, I see what you did there. Oh, bring her on in, Patman. Bring her on in. There it is. Let's play that one up. So I want to know, here most importantly, I want to know what the magic recipe is that you are so much fun and happy after all these years of doing music. Bro, really? Really? You know, you know, there's so many artists out there that are like, they're not even cool anymore after 20 years. They're just like. I'll give you the, I'll give you the, the first thing I did was I stopped smoking crystal meth.

2:12 Well, that helps. That was, that was, let me tell you something. That was a big kicker. That was a kicker. Stopped smoking crystal meth. And then I said, Hey man, I'm going to stop drinking too for a little bit. And then I started kind of liking myself because I was kind of funny. And good looking in a little bit of a way. And I no longer look like a cold sore. So I was like. Man, this is kind of nice. Let's see what I can do behind these guitars too. So I started, I left the major labels. I said, I don't think I want to give you 20% of my publishing, 20% of my merch, 20% of my touring. I don't think I even want to be famous. I'm going to back out. And I started my own label. And I just said, you know what? We're going to work hard. And I got six people that I loved to write with. And I said, when I'm on tour, you constantly write me good music so that when I get back, we just bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang.

3:06 And we just, it's like a machine. We did it Lil Wayne Drake style. We said, forget y'all hip hop. We're going to take that from you. We're going to keep writing and we're going. To show you guys. So what we did was just kept writing and we just kept producing really good music and we're just excited about it. And we never do something boring just to get famous or never do something stupid and dumb to get famous we're just grateful that all our kids are healthy uh that both my marriages didn't work out thank god. Yeah me too i'm divorced twice thank god they didn't work out oh lord. Thank you for divorce but you know i get along with both baby mamas it's the kids are beautiful like there's no drama in my life it's just music touring kids and i don't know i like to make.

3:56 Perfumes Tell me about the perfume. Bro, you have no idea, bro. It's so manly. I want to hear. Let's hear more. How did that happen? I just like when I got sober, I started smelling again. I started smelling like burning leaves in Christmas time. And I was like, wow, why don't anybody make a perfume that smells like that? I started smelling like like all kinds of like cigarettes at night in the winter. I was like, oh, my God, I need to I need to bottle that shit. And I just got became obsessed. So I just started buying raw materials from around the world and started making perfumes in my room. And I just love it. It's so much fun. But so I make music all day, all night. And then when I have time off, I make perfumes. And man, I just and then I'm a dad.

4:43 So do you think, you know, the cooking, the math helped you in cooking perfume? I wish I never cooked it, but I got close. I got close. I said, man, I'm sick of driving to that dude's house. What if I could just do it? Like, for real. What if I could just do this at my own house, man? I'm sick of driving to that dude's house. I swear to God, he's taking me and my monkeys in the trees with the cops. You know? It's fucking weird shit, man. I'm sure. You know what's even crazier, Pipe Man, is my dad was DEA. That doesn't surprise me, actually. Because I remember being in high school and it was always the kids that were kids of cops or feds that were the worst ones.

5:33 But we were good looking doing it. I told you I look like a, like a overweight penguin. Like I look like, I look like a double. Size, triple size Robert Downey Jr. With black eyes. Like I look like a, I look like a, What do you call those sandwiches, the ice cream sandwiches? I wore a black suit with a white shirt all the time. It was crazy. It is crazy to me, though, that some of the best artists came out of that kind of debauchery and turned into the most respectable human beings that actually make the best music now.

6:20 I really appreciate that. I don't know if you included me in that group, but I really appreciate you saying that while I'm on your show. You're definitely included. How else are we going to do a 20th anniversary? It means a lot to me because I agree with you and I think that a lot of addicts who do recover, especially off of meth and heroin and hard things like that, they already know what hell feels like because they've gone there they've lived there they're apologizing for it for the rest of their life they don't even know what hell feels like so everything that they're given above recovery is just such a blessing because they're still alive bro right so when they succeed they love it and then when they see themselves in the mirror again one day and they go oh my god for the first time in my life i like what i see and then they get addicted to just being good being good dads being good People, partners, friends, bandmates, interviewees, you show up on time, you're grateful, pipe man, thank you.

7:26 That's every day for me because I've been given a second chance and it is hard to stay clean. But 14 years later, I'm like, it's the greatest life ever, bro. That's absolutely phenomenal to hear because there's some that don't ever come back or Or don't make it. Or like, shit, man, you made it past 27. Bro, I threw myself a crazy party when I made it past 27. What a dumbass, right? Could you imagine the party I threw after 27? Oh, my God. We got Ben Hoon. We got Jean-Michel Basquiat. We got Kurt Cobain. We can go down Jimmy Hendrix. We can go down the list, you know. But the fact of the matter is we have lost a lot of people. To suicide, to mental illness, which goes hand in hand with addiction. We've lost a lot of people. And some days I'm just like, you know what? I can just have a glass of that wine.

8:28 I think I'm big enough. I can do that. But I know if I have a glass of that wine, that I'll be taking a trip to Mexico and never coming back. At least for a good month. Yeah, right. It is true. So many people think that at a certain point in time, I know people like that, and they're right back to as bad as they were before when they think that way, and they think they have it under control this time around because they learned how to keep it under control. No. It controls you. I'm allergic to alcohol and drugs. I break out in handcuffs, bottom line.

9:12 You know what I'm saying? No doubt. You know, that's just how it is. And there's two kinds of people. People that can take a drink of a glass of wine, two sips, three sips, and put it down and put the cork back in the bottle. And then there's me. I'll tell you something I never said on my radio show ever. The happiest day of my life is the day that I hit A pipe of free base. It was before crack came out and I gave it to the person. I'm like, fuck this. I don't, it's not doing anything for me and it's gross and I don't want it. And I never like, I consider that the luckiest day of my life. Cause it only takes one hit off that pipe and you're, you could be hooked.

10:05 So the fact that it wasn't, that is the luckiest day of my fucking life. Dude, you were at a crossroads and your life could have gone like this left and You end up this awesome dude that you are now, right, bro? Yeah. I end up like all my friends. It's the right turn. Listen, I grew up in the 80s as a teenager on the Sunset Strip. Oh, God. So, you know, for me to survive the Sunset Strip, somebody was watching over me. It's true. I grew up in the eighties in H town and I'll, you know, and so it's like, it was, it was very similar except you had the hair bands and the new wave and all the drugs, you know, and we had the, the performance artists who'd get on stage, rub themselves down in gravy and read from the Bible.

11:03 You know? So it was like, all right, right. Just drop a bunch of acid and go camping, you know? Uh, But it's a great life. And you asked me originally, how do I become so just positive and loving of life? Because I've been given a second chance and I'm not a little bitch anymore. Yeah. You have a choice. You have a choice. You got one round on this bitch. You going to live it up? Be happy, joyous, and free? Or are you going to be stressed out, manic, panicky, anxiety-ridden, and suicidal? Bro, come on. Come on. Give me the ticket for the healthy way because I want to look good, taste good, and feel. Good, bro.

11:43 A hundred million percent. And I want to smell good, too. I don't even get, like, I have friends from high school that never touched heroin in high school, but in their 50s, they OD'd on heroin. And I'm like, how do you not touch it then, but in your 50s, you OD and die from it? It's called regret. It's called sitting around you get overweight you get complacent You don't have anything passionate in your life. Nothing makes you happy because your kids have left You have nothing to live for so you go see the dope man and guess what? It's full of fentanyl. Yeah. Oh That shit's scary, bro, you know what it. Was crazy I saw this meme my kids showed me the other day and My kid showed me this meme of like that plane, Thomas the plane or Thomas the train or whatever it is. And she goes.

12:31 Dad, that's you. And I'm like, what do you mean? It had a big explosion behind the train. And it said me getting sober before fentanyl came. And he's like, my kid, my 14-year-old kid said, that's you. I'm like, dang, bro. That is pretty thankful. Because I can tell you. Hold on, Pipe Man. I have an artist walking in the door. He's right there. Oh, David Thelman. I'm so sorry. An artist just walked through the room. Oh my God. He's so hot. That David Thelman. Sorry. That's all right. They should give you a testimonial on your, on your interview. I mean, this guy just walks around like, no, I'm sitting in a studio that I own.

13:14 So I have a lot of cool artists. I come in young artists and I get to see them rock. And then sometimes I'll walk in there and just sit back in the back and listen. And they're always like, what are you doing? What are you thinking? I'm like, nothing, man. And then I like to lean forward and go, are you just going to keep it like that? Did that leave? I'm joking. I'm joking, Putnam. I don't think you are. I would do it. I do it to people all the time. We're about to go somewhere and I'll look at him. I'm like, you're going to go like that? You're going to look like that? Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. What do you mean? What do you mean? What do you mean? Oh, never mind.

14:02 So, wait, are you in Jacksonville? I'm in South Florida. Did you get hit by that? No. So that. Wait, wait, wait, wait. Let me ask you. Hey, hey, Florida, man. Did you get hit by that hurricane? That hurricane? No. That one didn't hit me. It actually hit my daughter lives up in the panhandle. So she had to evacuate to Orlando. And I met her up in Orlando. But she got lucky because, listen, I don't usually talk about this either, but she did a lot of drugs when she was a teenager. And she ended up having a brain aneurysm.

14:42 Okay. But yet, somebody's watching over her. She did not die. She should have died. And then the hurricane hit her whole neighborhood. All her friends got their houses destroyed, all her neighbors, and hers wasn't even touched. So there's some people watching after some people and some people not. Let me ask you something real quick, Pipe Man. And this is just a personal question. Has she been doing better lately with the drugs? Like, has she been trying to clean up her life? Oh, she hasn't done drugs for a while. She learned her lesson. You check it out. When you live good, Pipe Man, When you live good and you do the next right thing, whether or not that's throw your cigarette in an ashtray instead of the ground or put the toilet seat down so my girlfriend's perfect ass doesn't fall into the toilet.

15:28 When you live good, good things happen. Yeah. That's it. Be a good human. What a concept, right? Be a good human. Stop being a little political bitch. Oh, man. Stop being opinionated. Everybody's got opinions like a butthole. Yeah, exactly. And they all stink. I'm sick of telling them all. I escape a lot and I'll go to Costa Rica surfing and I have a brother. He'll call me up. He'll be like, did you see the news? And I'm like, no, and I don't give a shit. I'm going surfing. You have fun obsessing over the news. Okay. Like we need to disappear in music. That's what I love about music. We can disappear into that. Forget the rest of the world, you know, and Hetfield said it great just recently. You know, he said that at the sphere, he's like, You ain't going to get any political shit from us. Like, we're here to have fun, love each other, and listen to music. That's it.

16:22 That's me, too. You know? And I think that life is too precious, bro. Life is way too precious. And I think that your daughter is very blessed to have her house and everything and her health. And it's just sick, bro. And you're too blessed to have this show and be so damn handsome. Well, thanks. I mean, it took a lot of work. I bet it did. Not the show part. Like 30 minutes. Just the handsome part. Yeah, just the handsome part. The show itself didn't take any work. Just the handsome part. Just the upkeep of this. Yeah, no doubt. And not look like, you know, I just did, you know, a bunch of meth and heroin.

17:02 Yeah, like a triple-sized Robert Downey Jr. Exactly. Nothing wrong. I love Robert Downey Jr. Well, when he's Iron Man, he's great. Yeah. I liked him in Less Than Zero. Remember that? Yeah, yeah. So good. He is a good actor for sure. But you're a great musician. Hey, who's your favorite actor? My favorite? That's a hard choice. If you ask me my favorite character, that's easy. Actor's hard. Like, I'm madly, I don't know what it says about me and how fucked up I am, but I am madly in love with Harley Quinn. Not Margot Robbie, but Harley Quinn.

17:45 I love Harley Quinn. Yeah. Straight up. Yeah. I mean, she's the ultimate. Yeah, definitely. My favorite is Philip Seymour Hoffman, but you know what happened to him, but Philip Seymour. Hoffman, I think he's just a genius. He was just a genius. But anyway, ask me about my music. That's what I was trying to get to. And you keep telling me how, you know, great I am. Yeah. Yeah. Does it blow your mind that you're having a 20th anniversary of Foiled? No. It doesn't because I've been sober for 15 of those films. It's pretty slow timing going by.

18:25 It's been a really fucking slow 15 years, Pipe Man! It's about time it's the 20th anniversary. Maybe if I did a little speed. It would have sped it up. Right? Oh my god, but 20 years is great. I'm just grateful that I get to tour off this album sober. Because when we made this album, I wasn't. And we never got to tour for it because I had some medical issues and we had to get off the road for two years. And so we never got to tour for it. We never got to promote the album that sold 2.5 million records. So we're finally getting to, and it's incredible. People are buying tickets and people want to hear these crazy sad songs that I wrote.

19:08 Well, they're, they're fucking good. Now, what I want to know is what's the difference for you playing them sober opposed to not sober. If I would have, if playing them back then, I would have just been regurgitating this selfish pain because everybody knows when you're wrapped in the throes of addiction, that everything's dramatic. All relationships suck. And Oh God, you know, poor you. Uh, But now I'm grateful that those songs were written. I'm grateful that I liked to party back then, but my partying was sitting in a studio and never leaving the studio and doing all that. just alone like writing it all alone in the studio I'm grateful that I didn't like to just go out and get like prostitutes and you know what was that guy's name he made a freaking documentary a Netflix documentary.

20:04 Winning oh oh Charlie Sheen. I wasn't like him You know, it was two kinds of people. I was more like, I'm going to do all the drugs and then I'm going to sit in my room and I'm going to write and I'm going to write about what I'm going through and I'm going to experiment. I'm going to do this and that. But I was always alone and I was always focused on work. You know, I never went through a hoe. I never went through a hoe phase, Pipe Man. And you never went through an Aussie phase? A hoe phase. Well, he was pretty much a hoe. Yeah, they say I went through a hoe phase, but I don't remember. Well it's so funny Ozzy was so fucked up he thought he was banned from the Alamo for like how many years and it turned out it wasn't even true did you see that like he really actually did not piss on the Alamo but he thought he did all those years.

20:55 But I mean that's great press that's really good press. Well think about it would we have really known Ozzy the way we knew Ozzy if it weren't for the dove the bat and the Alamo no. That's what I'm saying. Ozzy's a G. Ozzy is a G. Kanye West is the poor man's Ozzy. Not poor man, but kind of the dumbass Ozzy. The watered down version? Yeah, because Ozzy's at least still make good music while he was being an idiot. You know what I'm saying? Kanye's just gotten worse. And the press that is on that guy is just, oh my lord. Anyway, Yes, I love making music. And 20 years later, I'm so glad to be playing songs like Hate Me and Into the Ocean.

21:45 They do mean a lot to me. I do may seem like a funny guy. I'm a very funny guy because I don't really focus on the negative stuff anymore. But I'm a very poetic, deep guy. And I love every bit of everybody supporting these beautiful, sad songs that mean a lot to me. They're therapy. There's therapy for everybody. For me as well. You as the artist and us as the listeners. Yeah, now I'd like to charge all of you more money because of my bill. I'm joking. Well, that would require you to be called a record label instead of an artist. I am the record label member.

22:26 I know, right? No, no, no. I think that it's more, it's what they do. For me is, is what's amazing. These people, they go out and support every tour. They go out and buy t-shirts. They go out and spread the word. And, uh, they helped me take care of my three children and, and keep them healthy and mentally safe and, uh, morally straight. I think I just said the boy Scouts word of honor. You got to do this morally straight. Yeah. too so now do you think all that you experienced has made you a better father yes tell us tell us your spin on that because i agree.

23:14 I think that i've seen both sides of it and like i have a daughter who loves marilyn manson uh she's 14 she adores marilyn manson so i flew her out to atlanta to see marilyn manson and to meet marilyn manson And then we drove the next day to North Carolina and watched the Marilyn Manson show again. And she dresses like she's a bat and hangs upside down in her bedroom. I'm pretty sure she hails Satan at night. And that's all joking, but I'm so proud of her because she's my only child that is the goth dad rocker. And we discussed my drug addiction, Marilyn Manson's past drug addiction and how we both sober and how we're both trying to be better people. We both made mistakes and that we're both given a second chance and that it, I'm pretty much pretty proud of Marilyn Manson for what he's doing. And I'm proud of myself for what, and she's, she understands it, you know, and then my older daughter, you know, uh, she's in college and she's my Barbie and she sees me not put up with anything from people in relationships. Like, and, and she's got boundaries the size of, I don't know, the great wall of China, you know, it's nice. And then my son just wants to be Cristiano Ronaldo, the soccer player.

24:38 I'm like, let's do it. Let's support dad's coffee habit. Right? Well, that, See, I love hearing all that because I think it is parents that have experienced stuff like I have, like you have, that they can relate to. Like, you can't relate to a parent that's never done those things telling you not to do them. Yeah, she's like, Dad, why don't you own a gun? And I was like, well, I'm not legally allowed to have one. She's like, well, why? I was like, well, your dad's been in two mental hospitals, one jail and one rehab. I'm a good looking man, but Baby, I'm a bad, bad man.

25:19 And then I go like this. And she goes, Dad, stop that. That's so weird. Right? But it's the truth. You know what I'm saying? I was like, baby, I'm a bad man. But they know that they can always come talk to me about anything. Exactly. And that you understand it. They would call me if they did some drugs and needed me to pick them up and I wouldn't yell at them. And they know that. I'd pick them up and I'd be like, what's up, dog? You good? You need some Waffle House? You feel me? Let's go. No, I won't call your mom. Do it again. I'll pick your ass up and call your mom. Right. Because their mom is the one that'll beat their ass, not me.

26:03 I even have that relationship with my grandchildren. Like, I've taken three of my grandsons into their first mosh pits ever. Oh, boy. But they tell me everything that their parents have no clue about. Yeah. And that's good because you're a cool dude, man. And at least I can keep my eyes on them because they don't block me from anything. Right. You know why? Because you don't judge them. Exactly. You don't make them feel weird. About wearing the makeup. My daughter just got contacts that look white. And she said, Dad. She got them yesterday. She goes, Dad, what are we doing tonight? I was like, well, we're going to pick your sister up from the airport.

26:44 She says, can we go to Chick-fil-A first, not the drive-thru? I'm like, why? She goes, because I want to wear these in there. And I'm like, okay, let's go. So then I, hold on, let me show you a picture of her now that we're talking about it. This is last night at the airport, her sitting, waiting. Look at this. Nice. Nice. I love that. Look at that. She's so cool, bro. Right? That's my daughter. When? I'm the one that would, you know, color my kid's hair like my daughter's hair.

27:24 And they would trust me to do it because I would do it like perfect. Of course, because look at your hair. Right, exactly. And then, so it's funny, you know, one time I remember my youngest daughter, she wanted to get her nose pierced and she was like 16. And I'm like, I kind of did the dad thing, and I'm like, I don't know about that yet. Yeah. So she went into the bathroom, and she tried to do it herself, and she came to me crying, like, with this stud halfway in her nose, halfway out. Oh. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.

28:04 And she's like... I can't get it in. I'm like, okay, let's take you to a professional. You're going to do it. She's smart. She's kind of smart. That was pretty good. I'm like, well, she's going to do it anyway, so I might as well make sure she does it the safe way and the right way instead of being an idiot and trying to do it. Check this out. Nice. That is so cool. Come on. Oh, my publicist just texted me. I have to get off this one and go to another one now.

28:46 Oh, fuck. Well, let's get rid of you. Man, no, Pipeman! This is too fun. We can't end this. I'm still on with Pipeman. That's what I'm texting her right now. Tell Sarah, sorry, we were having too much fun. I said I'm still on with Pipeman. All right, we're going to get you off. She did the right thing. Hey, don't flirt with me like that. Don't tell me you're going to get me off. We'll do that another time. Hey, I really appreciate you, and I appreciate the conversation, and thank you for celebrating this foiled 20th anniversary with us. There's a lot of songs in there that mean a lot to me, and I just appreciate you letting me be fun today, man.

29:27 Hey, that's the way it should be, and I got to tell you, as soon as Sarah sent me the email, I was like, definitely... This is an interview I want to do because you guys are badass and the fact that you're doing this world tour that never happened that blows my mind so everybody check out the tour go on the tour buy the merch or you can't listen to my show if you don't buy Blue October merch get off my show and don't freebase Matt No free base. Not allowed at blue October show anymore.

30:08 Anymore since 1998. Okay. Have a good day, buddy. Thanks for being on the adventures of pipe, man. You rock. Hey, this is Justin from blue October. And you're listening to pipe man on W4CY radio. Thank you for listening to The Adventures of Pikeman on W4CY Radio.