Oct. 31, 2024
PipemanRadio Interviews Dan Lilker & Dave Hofer About Perpetual Conversion
The second edition of the definitive DAN LILKER biography, Perpetual Conversion: 30 Years & Counting In The Life Of Metal Veteran Dan Lilker, will be officially released ten years to the day of its first edition on LILKER’s 60th birthday, October...
The second edition of the definitive DAN LILKER biography, Perpetual Conversion: 30 Years & Counting In The Life Of Metal Veteran Dan Lilker, will be officially released ten years to the day of its first edition on LILKER’s 60th birthday, October 18th, 2024, by smoke.grind.sleep Publishing.
Out of print for over five years, Perpetual Conversion...
The second edition of Perpetual Conversion... includes a brand new foreword by Tomas Lindberg (At The Gates) as well as an all-new, full-color section containing previously unpublished photos, fliers, and ephemera. Author Dave Hofer describes the project as, “a zine-format biography dedicated to LILKER’s ongoing, influential career.”
Orders for Perpetual Conversion... are shipping now! Order yours today at: perpetualconversion.com.
LILKER will participate in a live Q&A moderated by film director, producer, film editor, author, and musician Drew Stone at Generation Records in New York City on October 25th. LILKER and Hofer will also sign books at the event.
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WEBVTT
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Hey, you have one too, Yes, censure, I'm for see Wow, crazy.
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Young ro.
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Why become America? It's time for the Adventures of White Man.
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I'll tell you for c why dot com West pompys
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is number one Internet radio station.
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Here's your host, the white Man.
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This is the pipe Man here on the Adventures pipe
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Man W four c Y Radio. And I'm really excited
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about our next guests because they have a book that
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is really like to me, it's like a history book.
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It's it's it's a it's very very cool Incidance second edition.
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We're going to talk about it. So let's let's welcome
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to the show. Dan and Dave. How are you?
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Hey, how's it going? Hello?
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So this, uh, this book was off the shelf. Basically
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I have print for like five years and now we're
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having another edition of it. Tell us how that came
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about that this keeps evolving over all the years.
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Well, the main reason for a second edition was really
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due to a lack of availability of the first edition.
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There was a specific amount made up. They sold out
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by about twenty nineteen because it was originally released in
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twenty fourteen, and then it was just a few years
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of Hey, dude, where can I get your book? Now
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you can, Hey, dude, where can I get your book?
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And then Dave and I and of course my wife
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Heather has been very helpful with all this. You know,
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just the original publisher wasn't There was an original publisher
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who was going to do it, which was handshake, and
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then Brazilian Points took over for reasons left unexplained and
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put it out, but they were not going to be
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doing interested in pressing anymore. So we ended up, after
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talking to a few publishers, just saying fuck it and
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doing it ourselves. And we just decided to have it
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coincide with my sixtieth birthday, which was last week, because
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the original edition came out on my fiftieth birthday. That's cool,
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so the second As far as like what makes the
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second edition different, there would be the forward by Thomas
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Lindberg from at the Gates, and then there's a new
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color photo picture area in the back with some pretty
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recent stuff, stuff that I've even done this year. But
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I probably answered like four questions like that, so sorry.
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Oh that's perfect, and yeah, so are some of the
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pictures in there from this year at say Sonic Temple
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or Welcome to Rockville.
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No, they're The only picture from the Anthrax stuff was
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when I played with them in Santiago, Chile the month
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before that, but that is in there.
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And what was it like after like forty years to
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get back together and play like that.
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It was pretty cool. It was unexpected when I was
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first contacted by Scott, but Frank couldn't do some shows,
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and the majority of it was in Latin America, you know,
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from Mexico on down, and then those two shows that
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you mentioned, And yeah, it was just a lot of
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fun playing some stuff I'd heard a million times but
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never actually played. And obviously, you know, I played with
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Scott and Charlie before in another bands. But getting to
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know Joe and John Johnson Ad the guitar player, the
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guy from Shadows Falls, but with them for ten years
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was great, you know, made some new friends like that,
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and yeah, it was a good time. Got to go
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to some cool places like Ecuador and Costa Rica I've
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never been to before.
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Yeah. See that's his shirt right here is it has
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a picture of a sloth and it says just do
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it later, and it's it's I go to Costa Rica
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all the time. So oh oh, same same with the hat.
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See it says Costa Rica, So that's pretty funny. Yeah,
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it was great. I saw you guys played in sany
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you played in San Jose, so that was pretty cool
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because it's not often that metal plays in Costa Rica.
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Yeah, those people like nuts. That was a club show
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and it was hot as balls, but really fun.
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It would be there, right yeah.
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I mean that's tropical, dude. There's you know, walk out
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of the hotel in the evening to go burn one
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and it's at dusk and all the birds. It was
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so loud. I was just like, what the fuck's going on?
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Recorded it on my phone. It's just like squawking at
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like ninety decibels.
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And you know, how about the Howler monkeys. Did you
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hear the Howler monkeys?
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I don't think I did, but I was told about them.
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Yeah, they're a trip. So Dave, tell us a little
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bit about your experiences writing the book, and you know
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how it felt to put this kind of history out there.
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Oh, I mean the experience was great.
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I mean Dan is somebody that I admired from a distance,
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you know, for many years, and randomly would kind of
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see him here and there. The one fun story is
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how my wife is from the Pittsburgh area and one
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time I was out there visiting her and we were
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went to a show a Nate Palm Death, Cannibal Corpse,
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Macabre somebody else maybe probably, and Dan and his wife
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were just there randomly. I didn't approach him at the time,
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but I just remember thinking like, oh fuck, like what
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is he doing here?
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That's cool?
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And you know, I loved SOD and Brutal Truth, and
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then eventually had the opportunity to go on tour with
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Brutal Truth when they got back together in seven and
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then again an eight, which is when the idea for
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the book first came about. So it was very surreal
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getting to meet him and just kind of hang out
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and spend time with him and have a laugh and
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have a beer and just kind of hang out. In
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terms of putting his story out there, I mean, I
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feel honored to be the one to do that, because
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again I'm a great admirer of his work and now
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him as a person that I know him actually, and
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so I took it very seriously despite having a laugh
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a lot of the time with him, because you know,
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I want to take it too seriously because he's very funny.
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But yeah, I mean, you know, that's not every day
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you get to do a project like this, And I
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didn't want to half asset nor did I want to
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make a joke of it, because his career is incredible
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and very important. So yeah, news, I guess not to
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like overstate it, but I consider it to be an honor.
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To have been the one to be able to do that.
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And it's pretty cool because unlike nowadays, there was really
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no record of things and stories from back in the
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day either, you know, like now, everybody records everything that happens.
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Lucky for us, in the eighties, most of his stuff
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was not recorded, right.
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Well, yeah, I mean everybody's I mean, shit, you play
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a show in the first three rows, everybody's recording a
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show with their phone and barely watching the bed. I know, right, Yeah,
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it's a little overdocumentation. But I know what you mean,
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because if a band started now, they'd be able to have, like,
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be very easy to capture their whole career, whereas back
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in the day, you know, what did you have? I mean,
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if you wanted to see a video now of Nuclear
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Sault playing a little more in nineteen eighty five, it
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would be some grainy VHS you know, hundredth generation you know,
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VCR type tape and everything. No, no, yeah, but that's
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what also made it classic. Yeah, I mean like having
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a classic car or something. You know.
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I don't know, but well it was classic like that
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because back then, even with music, you went to a
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show because you didn't even know if it was going
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to be something you liked. You just saw something that
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was like, oh, this is cool, I'm going to go
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to the show. You didn't have a way to preview it.
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You just went, well, yeah, that's like how you bought
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records too.
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When I got into hardcore, I just tried to buy
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records with like if the bands had at least twenty
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songs on the record, I'm like, oh, hey, this is
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probably good. And that only failed once they were called
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TMA and the record was called What's for Dinner and
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they had twenty pop punk songs on it, and I said, verily,
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I have aired.
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I just want to go back to the thing you
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talked about it being kind of like a history book.
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One thing that like I don't think anybody but me
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cares about is that I don't know. I have always
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loved I work in a research center. Now, I've always
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loved that kind of like when I was in school
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writing a research paper as like a project that was
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my safe, comfortable place I could I love doing research,
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and so I pretty much well didn't have to insist
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to anybody else. But I was determined to have an
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index in the book because I really like the idea
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of somebody and god knows how many years writing a
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book on death metal and they can look in the
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back of this book and go to the d's and see, oh,
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death metal is mentioned on this, that and the other page,
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and they can use it as like a source material
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for whatever paper or book that they're working on. I
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hope that someday, before I die, I can see this
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book cited in another paper or book.
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That would just like warm my heart to no extent.
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That would be cool. And I did notice the index.
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I was like, Wow, that is pretty cool, and especially
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for the reason that you're saying, and you could kind
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of use it to go through and look for different
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things that you want to look for. And then it's
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funny that you mentioned about citing it because I had
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a history class in high school back in the eighties
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and the only thing I had to do was an
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oral presentation for the whole semester, and I chose to
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write about Ozzy Osbourne. Cool And I got an A
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in my history class for talking about Ozzie.
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You know.
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Yeah, well, I mean if that's you're right about things
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that you're passionate about, and that would have made sense.
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So no doubt, no doubt. And so, Dave, what would
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be one of your favorite stories of either from the
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book or from all this time of putting the book together.
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Well, there was like one thing that happened that is
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not in the book, but just kind of like between
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Danny and I when we were doing interviews that stuck
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out to me as a drummer at the time. Gosh,
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I guess it was probably like Danny's black metal band,
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Nocturnal Hellstorm. We took a break and he played me
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a CD of some recordings. We just like went into
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his car and listened to them, and.
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There was like a.
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Slower part and the drummer in the band did like
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a little like ride symbol, kind of like flourish and
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I heard that and said, oh, that's a tasty little
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ride cymbal lick there, And Danny looked at me, and
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he was like, I was wondering if you would notice that.
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And I was kind of like, ah, I passed the
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test on this ride symbol. I don't know whatever.
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I know it wasn't a test, but I was just like, Oh,
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that's fun that we are both kind of like tuned
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into the same things there. And I also love the
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00:13:24.480 --> 00:13:28.039
story in the book that Keith Bennett from Wrecking Crew
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tells about Dan. You could obviously tell it better, but
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it was like, You're wearing some shirt straight edge band
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that says.
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Like I don't need your drugs.
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Oh.
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That always tracked me up.
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You mean, yeah, Uniform Choice that was the band, Yeah, yeah,
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oh yeah. It said on the sleeve it said like
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I don't need your drugs. And our joke was that
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that's because your drugs suck. It's like, I don't need
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your drugs, I need his. Yeah. And then the other
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thing was the sleeve. I cut the sleeves off my shirt,
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so then I just had this little sleeve that said
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I don't be your drugs. Like this tube of cloth,
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I'm like, I wonder if I could stretch this over
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my cat so he could be a command Joe. You walked,
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he just walked by and glare to you while you're
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smoking a joint, and that would be on his back.
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You know.
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Ah, that's great, I love it.
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You know that would be like contortion. I wouldn't do
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it to him.
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Yeah, yeah, so you know it's I find it interesting too.
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I was thinking about this back in the summer because uh,
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I was that grass pop and I heard perform live
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one of the SOD songs but altered a little for
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twenty twenty four. I'm like, man, would SOD even be
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able to be a band in twenty twenty four? Have
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you thought about that?
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Oh?
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I thought about it, But SOD wouldn't be able to
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