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Sept. 25, 2026

Chris of Savage Grace Discusses New Album Underworld, Authenticity, and Staying True in Metal

Chris of Savage Grace Discusses New Album Underworld, Authenticity, and Staying True in Metal
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Join Pipeman for an engaging conversation with Chris from Savage Grace. The episode dives deep into the creation of Savage Grace’s latest album "Underworld," the evolution of authenticity in the music industry, stories from the classic metal and punk scenes, and the impact of self-censorship and cancel culture on modern artists. Through lively anecdotes and candid opinions, Chris reflects on personal experiences, the realities of being an unfiltered artist, and why being true to oneself is more crucial than ever.Main Topics Covered

  • Introduction to Chris and Savage Grace’s new album
  • The importance of authenticity in music
  • Reflections on the first punk/metal crossover show
  • Memories from the ’80s metal and punk scenes
  • The inspiration and stories behind "Underworld"
  • Self-censorship and cancel culture in music today
  • Challenges faced by artists who speak their mind
  • Anecdotes about band loyalty and friendship
  • The evolution of Chris's guitar playing and blues influences
  • Releasing new music in today’s climate
  • Upcoming album release date and distribution information
  • Reactions and future plans around provocative new videos
Key Discussions & StoriesStories from the Early Punk/Metal Days
  • Pipeman and Chris reminisce about a legendary crossover show featuring COC, Savage Grace, The Descendants, Possessed, and Archangel 00:59.
  • Sharing memories about band merchandise and the value of vintage shirts 17:15.
The New Album: "Underworld"
  • Chris explains "Underworld" is his most personal album, rooted in real-life experiences: “The whole album is basically about living under the radar, doing what you have to do to get by—prostitutes, strippers, porn stars, living at the harder side of life” 01:53.
  • Writing from lived experience versus fantasy or political themes 03:05.
Authenticity vs. Formula in Modern Music
  • Discussion on how many younger bands follow formulaic approaches, missing the raw authenticity that defined earlier generations 14:26.
  • Chris highlights the contrast with iconically uncompromising bands like Motorhead 15:52.
The Cost of Speaking Your Mind: Self-Censorship and Cancel Culture
  • Chris reflects on the increase in self-censorship, especially after a return to Europe: “You’ve already created your own damn prison” 04:34.
  • Real-world examples of artists losing gigs and being pressured to fire bandmates due to their political beliefs 10:13.
  • Chris recounts personal experiences with being "canceled" throughout his career, emphasizing that cancelation has, in fact, fueled his drive 11:52, 12:05.
The Power and Process of Blues Guitar
  • Chris details the depth that life experience brings to blues playing, contrasting it with technical speed 20:17: “To be a blues player, you have to have some life experience... to put your life into it, you have to have a life to put in it” 23:05 23:11.
Industry & Band Loyalty
  • Exploring the lack of loyalty and how friendships can dissolve under public pressure or scandal 34:00.
  • Chris offers insight: “The easiest way to get rid of someone in your life... loan them $100” 37:22.
Being “Canceled” as a Badge of Honor
  • Chris argues that being controversial or canceled can be a mark of artistic integrity and can often lead to greater exposure 27:59.
Notable Quotes
  • “The whole album is basically about living under the radar, doing what you have to do to get by… That’s what I know best, I’ve been doing it my whole life.” — Chris 01:53
  • “Music is the best therapy there is, and you’re not getting any therapy if you’re not being real to yourself.” — Pipeman 05:02
  • “What the hell happened to being a rebel?” — Chris 05:39
  • “If you’re worried about being canceled, you might as well think about selling shoes, working on the internet, or being a construction worker.” — Chris 28:52
  • “You have to feel the guitar and feel everything that you’re playing opposed to just playing it.” — Pipe Man 22:35
  • “Anytime I hear about somebody getting canceled, I want to hear what they have to say.” — Chris 31:39
  • “Being canceled is the best thing that could ever happen to you. At least you’ll get a ton of press.” — Chris 27:19
Resources & Links
  • Savage Grace "Underworld" Album
    • Release Date: October 23rd
    • Label: Back on Black Records (UK)
    • Available worldwide: Japan, US, Canada, Mexico, Europe
    • Distribution link: Plastic Head Distribution (for UK/Europe/America)
    • Pre-orders available on major sites (including Amazon)
  • Additional Releases
    • New live DVD out now
  • Upcoming Content
    • "Underworld" music videos dropping October 23rd (promised to be “extreme” and potentially controversial)
Connect & Follow
Thank YouSpecial thanks to Chris for sharing his stories and insights, and for continuing to make authentic music. Stay tuned for the album drop and future updates following October 23rd!

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WEBVTT

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This is Pipe Man here on the Adventures of Pipe

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Man W4CY radio. And I'm very excited about our next guest.

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A very old friend of mine who is an amazing musician.

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And they have some new music. So let's welcome to

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the show, Chris from Savage Grace. How are you?

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Doing great, Dean. Good to see you again.

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Good to see you. I was just at a festival

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louder than life this weekend. I was talking in one

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of the interviews about that show way back when that

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first crossover show at the Sun Valley Sportsman's Lodge. You

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remember that one?

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Ah, Sun Valley. Who was on that show?

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That was when first time punk and metal together at

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the punk side with COC, Prepepper. It was Savage Grace

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before they crossed over and the Descendants. And then on

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the metal side, it was Possessed, Dark Angel, and you guys.

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I do remember that show. Yeah, I do.

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That's pretty crazy. That may be a crazier show than

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when I knocked out my teeth.

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I don't know that that show when you hit the

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ground was pretty intense.

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Yeah, it was for me for sure. But great memory,

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even though bad result, but great memory. But now you

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have some new music, a new album, and I was

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listening to it and it's pretty freaking amazing. Tell us

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about the new album, how it came about and how

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it's different from the other Savage Grace albums.

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Okay, well, this new album, Underworld, it's my most personal album.

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All of these songs are written from my life, from

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my experiences, people I've known, things I've done. So, you know,

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I am the underworld. So, you know, a lot of

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times people write songs about fantasy and race cars or

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You know, things they don't really know. All of these songs,

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I know. I lived it. You know, the whole album

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is basically about living under the radar, doing what you

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have to do to get by. Prostitutes, strippers, porn stars,

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you know, living at the harder side of life. And

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that's what I know best. So because I've been doing

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it my whole life. So all of these songs were

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written really from personal experience. And, you know, it's liberating

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to be able to put stuff out that is you.

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You know, I'm not trying to be someone else, not

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trying to impress anybody with, you know, some political stuff

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or this and that. These songs are all about my life.

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And that's the only way it should be, I think,

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if you're an artist. That's the only way you can really,

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you can't please other people. You have to please yourself

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first by writing about what you know and about your

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own feelings. And then you'll attract your tribe of the

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people that are on the same wavelength as you.

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Okay, what you just said is dead on. In the

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last week, I did about three or four other press

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interviews with And the same issue kept coming up. And

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that is the issue of self-censorship. This has been a

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huge problem in the last few years. I didn't even

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realize it until I came over to Europe in 2024

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after not being there for 14 years. And it was shocking.

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I mean, guys, I can't write about that. I'll get canceled. No,

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we can't do that on stage. We'll get canceled. No,

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we can't talk about that. We'll get banned. And I said,

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are you guys living in the Soviet Union of the

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1970s or communist China in the 1960s? Because that's what

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you're living like. You're already created your own damn prison. Okay.

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You're worried about some secret police taking you off to jail.

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You don't need to go to jail. You're in jail

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of your own mind.

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No doubt. A hundred percent. And music shouldn't be like that.

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Like to me, being a music artist is being authentically

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you and speaking your mind and, you know, expressing yourself.

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Music is the best therapy there is. And you're not

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gaining therapy if you're not being real to yourself.

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You know, as far as I'm concerned, I'm one of

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the last pure artists out there in the metal scene.

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You know, With all the guys in Motorhead dying and,

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you know, these older bands getting phased out, dying off.

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The younger bands, they don't get it, okay? They think

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they've got to please everybody. They've got to please all

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these political forces. They have to please the government. They

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have to please the corporations. What the hell happened to

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being a rebel, okay?

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I know, right? It blows my mind. But like even

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with punk bands, there's like some punk bands I've interviewed

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over the years. I'm like, since when was punk pro-government? Like,

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it's weird. Yeah.

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You know, you're stealing my thunder tonight, Dean. You know, again,

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the last few interviews I did with guys in the USA,

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I spoke with a guy who lives in Czech Republic.

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And I said, I lived in Czech Republic. And I said,

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what's going on there is like the Soviet Union times.

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He said, you're right. My dad lived through the Soviet

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Union when they took over Czech Republic. He said, everybody

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is so concerned with being part of the hive mind. Okay.

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Then you ask yourself, well, who is behind the hive mind?

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It's the state.

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Okay.

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So all the 60s rebellions. you know, fuck the government,

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fuck the state. No, now it's all, we love the state.

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We love it. The state is our God. Fuck God,

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the state's our God.

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I know, right? Well, it blows my mind to your

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point that the hippies of the 60s became the yuppies

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and now we're the boomers and they're like the exact

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opposite of what they stood for back in the 60s.

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It's sickening. Okay, it's sickening. You have people out there,

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these old farts like Neil Young and that gal that sang,

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you know, with the high voice back then. What was

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her name? The pretty blonde girl from Canada. Oh, Joni Mitchell. Okay.

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All these people were rebels in the 60s, right? Fuck,

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fuck the war. Fuck the government. Fuck this. Fuck Republicans. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

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Now they're all like, we love the state. Give us

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some more vaccine injections. Lock us down some more. Let's

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wear some masks and show our solidarity with the state.

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What are these people smoking? What are they smoking?

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It's weird, right? Like rock and roll has always been

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the rebels. Since when is rock and roll representing the state?

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That's for sure. It's weird.

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Okay, and you think it's bad in the USA? Okay,

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I spent the whole year in Europe in 2024. I

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spent a couple months over there in 2025. I lived

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in Germany for a month with my singer in northern Germany.

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It is so damn bad, okay? If you say one

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wrong thing over there on the internet or even in person,

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you're going to get a knock on your door, okay?

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You're going to get canceled immediately. I was talking to

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a guy the other night, another host, and he said

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he knows three American bands, okay, that had all their

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gigs canceled in Europe because one or two of the

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guys in the band said, I like Trump or some shit,

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you know. And, okay, I mean, just for that, okay,

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you're canceled. Goodbye. So that is how far gone They

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are there. But you see, the good news is for

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every strong action, you're going to get reaction. And now

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they push the spring down as far as they can

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push it. And it's about to boing up in their face. Okay.

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And this is already happening. You look at what's happening

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in Germany, Spain, Italy, UK. They've reached the breaking point.

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And you're going to have big problems now because of it.

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You cannot force people to act and live in an

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unnatural manner.

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People have to be authentic to themselves. And to your

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point of the cancellations, there are five, six different... punk

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festivals that I do media coverage for every year that

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were all canceled this year due to political reasons. And

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not like the political reasons of the 60s.

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It's like the people who are not down with the

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state program. Okay. They have to be eliminated. So if

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they don't cancel you off the internet, they're going to

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cancel your money. Okay.

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All right.

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Well, if that's what you want to do, you won't work.

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You know, there's a band called Vicious Rumors. Okay. And

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an agent friend of mine said, do you want to

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go on the road with them this year? I said,

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let me think about it. And then a guy told

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me they actually fired their drummer because the promoter in

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germany said get rid of your drummer he supports trump so.

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They fired him wow.

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If that was my band i would have told the

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promoter in germany hey i got something for you to

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suck on okay fire someone in your band because a

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promoter said so.

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It was bad enough when record labels were telling bands

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to do things. Now promoters are dictating the terms. It

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just shouldn't be that way at all. Bands should dictate

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the terms of their own band.

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And that is going to happen, okay? And, okay, if

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they don't play for a while, they don't play. If

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they don't have a record deal for a while, okay,

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they don't have a record deal. But the people... Who

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know what's going on. And there are a lot of them.

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Believe me, I meet them every day. They know what's

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going on and they're not down with it. Okay. So

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for all the people that want to cancel, I've been

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canceled since 1983. Okay. You know, my first dominatrix EP

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was canceled. Mash of Disguise was canceled. I love being canceled.

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The more they hate me, the more I enjoy it.

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Well, you're a true rock and roll rebel the way

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it should be. And you've always stayed true to yourself.

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And that portrays in this new album. And I love

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that you're talking about your life because you have had

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a lot of adventures in your life, some good, some bad.

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And music is the best way to tell the story

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about that.

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Yeah. You know, six years ago, I put out a

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book about my life. And, you know, most people read

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it and say, I don't believe you. It's all, you know,

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you made this shit up. I said, why would I?

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Why would I? I mean, what I wrote as the

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truth is more insane than anything I could make up. Okay.

190
00:12:58.570 --> 00:13:01.789
Even if I hired some Hollywood script writer and said,

191
00:13:01.830 --> 00:13:04.929
write a crazy story. My real life is a thousand

192
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times crazier than what they could come up with. So

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with this record, I did the same thing. I said, okay,

194
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I'm just going to talk about what I know, what

195
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I've done. It's like testimony. Okay. It's testimony. So if

196
00:13:19.950 --> 00:13:22.049
someone says, well, you didn't really do all that. I

197
00:13:22.100 --> 00:13:28.080
did all that. I have the, I have the receipts. So, um,

198
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and when you listen to it, you hear that, um,

199
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I'm totally connected with the music, my guitar playing songs, um,

200
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a singer that I brought in for the band, you know,

201
00:13:43.179 --> 00:13:48.320
basically he's an extension of me. Okay. I produced everything.

202
00:13:48.379 --> 00:13:52.039
All the vocals did all the arranging. So if I

203
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still could sing, I would have done it like that.

204
00:13:55.799 --> 00:14:01.159
Yeah. And that's the way you've always kind of been. Okay.

205
00:14:01.259 --> 00:14:07.210
And you're an amazing artist. The, this new album shows

206
00:14:07.309 --> 00:14:13.860
it once again, It shows your talent and your authenticity.

207
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And that's so important in whether it be metal, rock, punk, whatever.

208
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Authenticity is what's important. And that's what's missing today is authenticity.

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Even some of these metal bands today, I've said it,

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00:14:29.139 --> 00:14:34.409
like they follow like a formula, like an algebraic equation

211
00:14:34.690 --> 00:14:38.149
or make metal. That was never metal. That was Metal

212
00:14:38.190 --> 00:14:43.389
was always experimentation and doing things that were never done,

213
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not doing stuff to sound like everybody else.

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00:14:48.139 --> 00:14:52.039
You know, back in the 70s and 80s, they had

215
00:14:52.100 --> 00:14:55.179
some people who were like what you call pro songwriters.

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00:14:57.200 --> 00:14:59.700
And they would write songs for big artists, you know,

217
00:14:59.759 --> 00:15:04.980
Kiss and White Snake, blah, blah, blah, Bon Jovi, blah, blah, blah. Okay,

218
00:15:05.059 --> 00:15:07.100
and they'd come in with a verse. Okay, guys, this

219
00:15:07.179 --> 00:15:12.039
is the song, blah, blah, blah. Let's do it. Okay, great. But, okay,

220
00:15:13.490 --> 00:15:18.350
people who are really into metal, they can smell it. Okay,

221
00:15:18.389 --> 00:15:23.909
they know when somebody's writing something from themselves or they've

222
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hired outside songwriters to come in and, you know, write

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some hit songs for them. And, you know, I'm probably...

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in my opinion, probably the most pure artist in metal

225
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that's left. Okay. There were guys before me, okay. Motorhead,

226
00:15:45.789 --> 00:15:47.629
you know, when I, when I went out with Motorhead

227
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in the eighties, those guys never compromised, you know, they

228
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said to him, you know, they want us to be

229
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more commercial. They want us to hire some songwriters, come in,

230
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make some hits. They said, fuck that, you know, we're Motorhead. And, um,

231
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They just kept going. And I always respected them for that.

232
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You know, you may not like what they do, but

233
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you got to respect it. And now I'm in that position.

234
00:16:18.129 --> 00:16:20.330
So some people may listen to my stuff. Well, I

235
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don't like it. Okay, that's fine. But they got to

236
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respect me.

237
00:16:24.730 --> 00:16:25.029
Yeah.

238
00:16:25.649 --> 00:16:29.250
For what I'm doing. Because I'm not saying, okay, I'm

239
00:16:29.269 --> 00:16:31.740
going to go back and make another Master of Disguise

240
00:16:31.799 --> 00:16:35.129
record exactly like that. I'm going to make another after

241
00:16:35.169 --> 00:16:39.389
the full record. Exactly. No, I'm moving forward. Okay. I'm

242
00:16:39.429 --> 00:16:43.970
taking everything I've known after 45 years and making new music.

243
00:16:43.990 --> 00:16:44.929
Okay.

244
00:16:45.350 --> 00:16:49.590
Just like I did in 1984. Okay. I was making

245
00:16:49.629 --> 00:16:54.690
new music. I wasn't trying to make Boston from 76. Right.

246
00:16:55.090 --> 00:16:58.429
I liked Boston. I liked Van Halen, but I didn't

247
00:16:58.470 --> 00:17:00.929
want to be Boston or Van Halen. Okay. Okay.

248
00:17:02.610 --> 00:17:05.369
You know, it's funny, as you mentioned the Motorhead tour,

249
00:17:06.190 --> 00:17:09.730
I still have the shirt from when you guys went

250
00:17:09.869 --> 00:17:11.230
on tour with Motorhead.

251
00:17:12.230 --> 00:17:15.599
Oh, you mean the Motorhead with special guest Savage Gray shirt?

252
00:17:16.160 --> 00:17:19.299
Yes, sir. Yes, sir. Doesn't fit me, but I still

253
00:17:19.339 --> 00:17:22.039
have it. Let me tell you something.

254
00:17:22.059 --> 00:17:24.180
That shirt is worth a lot of money. I've seen

255
00:17:24.200 --> 00:17:26.490
those going on eBay for $ 400. Really?

256
00:17:27.130 --> 00:17:30.799
Well, I would never sell it. It stays as a

257
00:17:30.839 --> 00:17:33.420
memento of those great days back then.

258
00:17:34.240 --> 00:17:38.339
Very few of those shirts were made. And I know

259
00:17:38.460 --> 00:17:44.140
because my manager at the time, Bob Fiero, he ran

260
00:17:44.200 --> 00:17:49.509
the merchandising company that made those shirts. So those are extremely,

261
00:17:49.930 --> 00:17:52.210
I don't even have one. They're extremely rare.

262
00:17:53.049 --> 00:17:57.049
Wow, that's wild. I'll tell you another story about shirts too,

263
00:17:57.170 --> 00:17:59.500
since you said I don't even have one. I had

264
00:17:59.519 --> 00:18:04.119
this discussion with Joey Vera a couple years ago, because

265
00:18:04.539 --> 00:18:08.400
we were talking about how I was their first merch company,

266
00:18:08.420 --> 00:18:12.160
because me and my bro made their shirts and pins

267
00:18:12.220 --> 00:18:17.759
in the beginning, and approached them and said, hey, we

268
00:18:17.799 --> 00:18:20.309
make shirts and pins. Can we sell them at your show,

269
00:18:20.349 --> 00:18:22.170
and we'll give you half? And they're like, sure. So

270
00:18:22.950 --> 00:18:26.460
we were talking about it, and he says, you know

271
00:18:26.500 --> 00:18:29.000
that picture? And you probably know this picture too. There's

272
00:18:29.039 --> 00:18:33.740
a picture on the internet with Lars holding a guitar.

273
00:18:34.059 --> 00:18:37.720
He must've been like 15 or 17 or something like that.

274
00:18:38.759 --> 00:18:42.789
And he had an armored Saint shirt on and he goes,

275
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that's your shirt. And I'm like, no way. And he goes,

276
00:18:46.849 --> 00:18:49.210
and he still has it. And I'm like, I don't

277
00:18:49.230 --> 00:18:52.259
even have it anymore. And Joey goes, neither do I.

278
00:18:53.170 --> 00:18:56.589
And then a couple, like a month later at festivals,

279
00:18:56.650 --> 00:19:00.789
interviewing Lars's twins, his kids. And I asked them about

280
00:19:00.910 --> 00:19:03.190
after the interview and they're like, yeah, he probably does.

281
00:19:03.210 --> 00:19:05.809
He has like a whole closet of everything he ever had,

282
00:19:06.390 --> 00:19:09.170
which I thought that was kind of cool that, you know,

283
00:19:09.529 --> 00:19:13.289
we all treasure that time so much that we have

284
00:19:13.390 --> 00:19:16.819
saved everything from that time. And I think your new

285
00:19:16.950 --> 00:19:20.700
album for me, brings me back to that time. And

286
00:19:20.720 --> 00:19:22.240
that's one of the things I love about it, even

287
00:19:22.279 --> 00:19:25.119
though it's different, but like you said, why you want

288
00:19:25.140 --> 00:19:27.559
to write the same album over and over again, but

289
00:19:27.599 --> 00:19:32.289
it's still great music. And your guitar playing is, you know,

290
00:19:33.619 --> 00:19:35.910
just as good, if not better than it ever was.

291
00:19:35.970 --> 00:19:37.069
So that's, what's cool.

292
00:19:37.589 --> 00:19:40.569
Well, my, my playing is actually way better than it

293
00:19:40.630 --> 00:19:41.529
was in the eighties.

294
00:19:41.970 --> 00:19:42.410
Exactly.

295
00:19:42.549 --> 00:19:46.910
I mean, in the eighties, I was, you know, my

296
00:19:46.970 --> 00:19:50.000
playing was good. I could play fast. I could do

297
00:19:50.039 --> 00:19:54.140
a lot of runs, blah, blah. But now I'm a

298
00:19:54.259 --> 00:19:58.390
real blues guitarist. And if you listen to my leads

299
00:19:58.569 --> 00:20:01.410
on like a way back from love and white trash,

300
00:20:01.450 --> 00:20:05.609
the new songs, that stuff is smoking. Okay.

301
00:20:05.630 --> 00:20:05.890
Yeah.

302
00:20:06.289 --> 00:20:09.059
That, that blows what I was doing in 86 out

303
00:20:09.099 --> 00:20:13.890
the door. And that's because, you know, in order to

304
00:20:13.930 --> 00:20:16.650
be a blues player, you have to live the blues.

305
00:20:17.339 --> 00:20:17.619
Yeah.

306
00:20:17.799 --> 00:20:20.420
I'm just telling a guy this the other night. If

307
00:20:20.460 --> 00:20:23.319
some kid said, I want to be a great blues guitarist,

308
00:20:23.859 --> 00:20:26.500
I'm going to hire a teacher. I'm going to practice

309
00:20:26.599 --> 00:20:29.759
every day. And in a year, I'm going to be great. No,

310
00:20:29.799 --> 00:20:35.240
you're not. Okay. Because you haven't lived it. Okay. Stevie

311
00:20:35.299 --> 00:20:38.240
Ray Vaughan started playing when he was like nine years old.

312
00:20:39.160 --> 00:20:42.809
He was jamming with Albert King when he was like 12.

313
00:20:42.809 --> 00:20:48.029
So he immersed himself in the blues. Immersed. His whole

314
00:20:48.069 --> 00:20:52.660
life was the blues. So that's why he became so

315
00:20:52.740 --> 00:20:55.799
good at a young age because he started very young.

316
00:20:57.559 --> 00:21:01.890
To be a blues player, you have to have some

317
00:21:01.950 --> 00:21:06.099
life experience. Just to go out there and rip it up. Okay.

318
00:21:06.119 --> 00:21:09.819
A lot of arpeggios, like an Yngwie type player. You

319
00:21:09.859 --> 00:21:12.640
can do that with practice. Okay. If you sit home

320
00:21:12.680 --> 00:21:14.940
and practice four hours, five hours a day, you can

321
00:21:15.000 --> 00:21:17.920
rip it up just like that. But to be a

322
00:21:17.940 --> 00:21:23.700
blues player, you know, if you ever watched the interview, the, um, that, um,

323
00:21:23.859 --> 00:21:27.980
Albert King and Stevie Ray did up in Canada in 84.

324
00:21:27.980 --> 00:21:31.799
It's on YouTube. It's like a two hour, hour and

325
00:21:31.819 --> 00:21:35.480
a half show where they did it in the studio. And, uh,

326
00:21:36.319 --> 00:21:40.579
Albert said to Stevie Rivoni, he said, he said, man, Stevie,

327
00:21:40.640 --> 00:21:43.329
I never knew you were going to blow up so big.

328
00:21:43.960 --> 00:21:46.829
You know, there's a lot of good guitar player out there.

329
00:21:47.269 --> 00:21:51.029
They play fast, but they don't got no soul. He said,

330
00:21:51.069 --> 00:21:52.029
you got them both.

331
00:21:52.970 --> 00:21:53.529
Okay.

332
00:21:54.529 --> 00:22:01.750
So I can still play fast, but I'm really, really

333
00:22:01.809 --> 00:22:04.769
bluesy now. And when people hear that record, they're going

334
00:22:04.789 --> 00:22:08.079
to go, whoa, And even on our, you know, we

335
00:22:08.119 --> 00:22:11.839
just put out a DVD, our first DVD we've ever

336
00:22:11.900 --> 00:22:16.000
done live show. And even my leads on that, which

337
00:22:16.140 --> 00:22:20.509
is not the new material, but stuff from the past. Very,

338
00:22:20.809 --> 00:22:22.789
very bluesy, very bluesy.

339
00:22:24.490 --> 00:22:29.150
Well, you know, it's interesting what you said, because the

340
00:22:29.210 --> 00:22:32.119
biggest thing I thought of while you're saying is when

341
00:22:32.130 --> 00:22:36.410
you're playing the blues and It's not playing it. Like

342
00:22:36.430 --> 00:22:39.680
you said, it's immersing yourself, but it's a feeling. Like

343
00:22:39.720 --> 00:22:43.940
you have to feel the guitar and feel everything that

344
00:22:43.960 --> 00:22:47.619
you're playing opposed to just playing it. Yeah.

345
00:22:47.839 --> 00:22:53.619
What you're doing is you are transferring your life experience

346
00:22:53.740 --> 00:22:59.309
into those notes. Okay. To just play fast and go

347
00:22:59.390 --> 00:23:02.589
up and down the neck like a lightning bolt. You

348
00:23:02.630 --> 00:23:06.940
can do that with practice, okay? But to put your

349
00:23:07.220 --> 00:23:10.519
life into it, you have to have a life to

350
00:23:10.579 --> 00:23:14.119
put in it. If you haven't had a life to

351
00:23:14.140 --> 00:23:16.920
put in it, it isn't going to sound like that.

352
00:23:17.579 --> 00:23:19.759
You know, I was in Europe last year staying at

353
00:23:19.880 --> 00:23:22.940
one of my fans. He was a 16-year-old kid with

354
00:23:22.980 --> 00:23:24.910
his family. He let me stay there for a week.

355
00:23:25.890 --> 00:23:27.529
And he's a guitar player. I said, I'm going to

356
00:23:27.589 --> 00:23:30.670
show you how to play a few licks. He couldn't

357
00:23:30.710 --> 00:23:33.779
even bend one note. I said, okay, I just want

358
00:23:33.819 --> 00:23:36.099
you to play two notes. I just want you to

359
00:23:36.119 --> 00:23:41.400
go like Albert King, right? Just couldn't do it. And

360
00:23:41.420 --> 00:23:45.829
I said, okay, because he didn't have the life experience. So,

361
00:23:46.289 --> 00:23:48.769
you know, when people say, oh, the guy plays blues. Oh, well,

362
00:23:48.809 --> 00:23:51.930
he must play really slow. And he's, you know, playing,

363
00:23:51.950 --> 00:23:56.279
you know, thinks he's black or something. I don't play slow. Okay.

364
00:23:56.650 --> 00:23:59.279
If you listen to those leads, they're pretty damn fast,

365
00:23:59.799 --> 00:24:05.170
but they're very, very bluesy. Okay. And that is because

366
00:24:05.190 --> 00:24:12.569
I am transferring my life experience into those notes. And

367
00:24:12.609 --> 00:24:16.940
my life experience has been intense. Okay. That's why my

368
00:24:17.059 --> 00:24:19.839
playing is intense. You know, I don't sound like a

369
00:24:19.880 --> 00:24:24.240
jazz player. I don't sound like, you know, Larry McLaughlin

370
00:24:24.259 --> 00:24:26.880
or one of those guys, because they've lived a different

371
00:24:26.940 --> 00:24:32.490
type of life. You know, they live a, different life

372
00:24:32.710 --> 00:24:36.450
my life has been on the edge for a long time.

373
00:24:38.069 --> 00:24:42.029
Well I'm so happy you're still putting out music because

374
00:24:42.130 --> 00:24:46.089
again best therapy there is first of all for you

375
00:24:46.230 --> 00:24:50.910
and for me the listener but also because it's just

376
00:24:50.970 --> 00:24:55.049
something the world needs right now and I want to

377
00:24:55.089 --> 00:25:02.359
know what is the motivation for you After all these years,

378
00:25:02.420 --> 00:25:05.559
that keeps you getting better and better and putting out

379
00:25:05.700 --> 00:25:11.119
new music and even, you know, making the craft of

380
00:25:11.180 --> 00:25:13.640
your guitar playing the best it's ever been.

381
00:25:15.000 --> 00:25:18.589
Well, the answer to that is I still have something

382
00:25:18.660 --> 00:25:22.650
to say. If I didn't have anything to say, I

383
00:25:24.150 --> 00:25:26.289
would give it up. I would just sit on the

384
00:25:26.329 --> 00:25:30.400
beach here in Thailand and do nothing. but I don't

385
00:25:30.460 --> 00:25:33.910
want to do nothing. I still have things to say.

386
00:25:35.029 --> 00:25:39.009
And the things that I have to say are important

387
00:25:39.089 --> 00:25:43.309
to me. And I think they're important for other people. Okay.

388
00:25:44.990 --> 00:25:49.269
These guys who play metal now, these younger kids, they

389
00:25:49.329 --> 00:25:54.609
need a more positive role model. Let me share something

390
00:25:54.670 --> 00:25:59.190
with you. When I was recording this album, I had

391
00:25:59.210 --> 00:26:04.529
a different singer when we started than Sebastian Hauser. I

392
00:26:04.569 --> 00:26:07.559
had a different guy. And I liked this guy. He

393
00:26:07.579 --> 00:26:14.460
was a great guy. But English is not his first language.

394
00:26:15.680 --> 00:26:19.220
So I had a hell of a time working with him.

395
00:26:19.480 --> 00:26:23.400
It was extremely difficult. One of the most difficult things

396
00:26:23.460 --> 00:26:27.119
of my life. It was very time consuming and very expensive.

397
00:26:28.559 --> 00:26:31.480
But we got through about seven songs with this guy.

398
00:26:32.720 --> 00:26:34.829
And then I sat down with him. I said, listen,

399
00:26:34.950 --> 00:26:37.509
I have a marketing plan for the album. This is

400
00:26:37.549 --> 00:26:41.549
what we're going to do. And he said, absolutely not.

401
00:26:42.309 --> 00:26:45.289
I will not be a part of it. No way.

402
00:26:46.130 --> 00:26:50.019
And I said, well, you're leaving me very little options here. Okay.

403
00:26:50.920 --> 00:26:53.359
So I had to get rid of him. And I

404
00:26:53.380 --> 00:26:58.089
brought in Sebastian Hauser, which was a great move because

405
00:26:58.130 --> 00:27:01.750
he was fantastic. He did a great job. But the

406
00:27:01.789 --> 00:27:07.710
reason the kid was afraid of my marketing plan, he

407
00:27:07.769 --> 00:27:12.509
told me, is he was afraid of being canceled. And

408
00:27:12.589 --> 00:27:18.190
I said, you're 29 years old and you're worried about

409
00:27:18.259 --> 00:27:23.460
being canceled. I said, being canceled is the best thing

410
00:27:23.500 --> 00:27:26.480
that could ever happen to you. Nobody in the world

411
00:27:26.559 --> 00:27:30.319
knows who you are. You're a nobody. Okay. If you

412
00:27:30.359 --> 00:27:32.660
get canceled, at least you'll get a ton of press.

413
00:27:33.329 --> 00:27:34.029
Don't you get it?

414
00:27:35.119 --> 00:27:37.970
Don't you get it? And he couldn't get it. He

415
00:27:38.009 --> 00:27:41.970
couldn't compute. You know, my father was a PR man

416
00:27:42.230 --> 00:27:45.089
for the movie studios back in the 50s and 60s.

417
00:27:46.049 --> 00:27:49.509
He represented a lot of big stars, Lana Turner, Sean Connery,

418
00:27:50.190 --> 00:27:53.809
Mickey Rooney, Donald O'Connor, all these people. And he used

419
00:27:53.829 --> 00:27:56.380
to tell me all the time, He said, there's no

420
00:27:56.509 --> 00:28:00.529
such thing as bad press. He said, all press is

421
00:28:00.569 --> 00:28:04.410
good press. If they want to pan your album, say

422
00:28:04.450 --> 00:28:07.690
you're an idiot, whatever, the better. He said, the more

423
00:28:07.789 --> 00:28:11.470
hatred in the press, the better. And I tried to

424
00:28:11.509 --> 00:28:14.359
explain it to this kid. And he said, if I

425
00:28:14.400 --> 00:28:17.240
get canceled, it's the end of me. And I said,

426
00:28:17.279 --> 00:28:20.420
you're wrong. I said, if you don't get canceled, it's

427
00:28:20.460 --> 00:28:23.400
the end of you. This kid's in three other bands

428
00:28:24.500 --> 00:28:29.279
that aren't doing shit. but they're not canceled, okay? At

429
00:28:29.299 --> 00:28:34.000
least they're not canceled. I may be canceled, but I'm

430
00:28:34.039 --> 00:28:41.589
doing stuff, okay? So if you're that afraid of being canceled,

431
00:28:42.789 --> 00:28:47.750
you might as well think about selling shoes, working on

432
00:28:47.769 --> 00:28:53.490
the internet, being a construction worker, because if you're worried

433
00:28:53.529 --> 00:28:56.059
about what the world thinks of you that much, you

434
00:28:56.119 --> 00:28:57.440
should forget about music.

435
00:28:58.859 --> 00:29:02.339
I was just thinking that exact same thing. You know, like,

436
00:29:03.180 --> 00:29:06.009
why be in the music business if you're worried about

437
00:29:06.069 --> 00:29:11.109
getting canceled and if you can't express yourself? Let me tell.

438
00:29:10.990 --> 00:29:18.930
You something else, okay? Kanye West, okay? That guy is

439
00:29:19.049 --> 00:29:24.359
banned in every country in Europe. He cannot even set

440
00:29:24.519 --> 00:29:29.950
foot there, okay? A few weeks ago, he played a

441
00:29:30.029 --> 00:29:35.490
show in Istanbul, Turkey, in front of 120,000 people, okay? 120,000 people.

442
00:29:40.000 --> 00:29:41.460
Showed up to see him and a lot of those

443
00:29:41.519 --> 00:29:44.900
people Came from Europe Because they knew they couldn't see

444
00:29:44.940 --> 00:29:49.960
him there Okay Whatever the guy has to say You

445
00:29:51.039 --> 00:29:53.339
know I don't know what the guy really His message

446
00:29:53.380 --> 00:29:58.430
is But if he's that cancelled That they really need

447
00:29:58.470 --> 00:30:02.250
to shut him down He must be saying something important.

448
00:30:02.829 --> 00:30:05.390
You know, if they're going to go through all that

449
00:30:05.450 --> 00:30:09.150
trouble to shut this guy down, destroy his life, take

450
00:30:09.210 --> 00:30:15.109
away his platform, whatever. That makes me want to actually

451
00:30:15.150 --> 00:30:17.950
listen to him. I never listened to the guy before.

452
00:30:18.650 --> 00:30:22.410
But if he's that canceled, what's he saying? What's he

453
00:30:22.450 --> 00:30:26.980
saying that's so bad I won't hear it? Let me judge, okay?

454
00:30:27.589 --> 00:30:30.049
If he's saying something that I don't like, okay, I

455
00:30:30.069 --> 00:30:33.089
won't listen to it. If he says something that's interesting, okay,

456
00:30:33.269 --> 00:30:39.130
he's got something to say. But don't deplatform these people, okay?

457
00:30:39.170 --> 00:30:39.430
Right.

458
00:30:40.789 --> 00:30:43.779
That's the worst thing you can do. Because the more

459
00:30:43.819 --> 00:30:49.000
you suppress it, the more people go, see? Aha, he's right.

460
00:30:50.339 --> 00:30:56.460
You see? Yes. It causes the reverse. They want to

461
00:30:56.500 --> 00:30:59.880
shut him down. Okay. Then more people say he must

462
00:30:59.980 --> 00:31:01.759
be right. Okay.

463
00:31:02.359 --> 00:31:03.000
Exactly.

464
00:31:03.680 --> 00:31:06.859
That's what it is with me. Okay. The more they

465
00:31:06.880 --> 00:31:11.200
want to shut me down, you know, they don't put

466
00:31:11.240 --> 00:31:14.849
all these stories on the internet. The more people want

467
00:31:14.869 --> 00:31:15.789
to see what I'm doing.

468
00:31:17.250 --> 00:31:20.930
No doubt. And not only that, but if they want

469
00:31:20.950 --> 00:31:23.150
to shut you down, if they want to cancel you,

470
00:31:23.210 --> 00:31:26.009
that means the powers that be are, are in fear.

471
00:31:26.859 --> 00:31:28.180
That you're speaking truth.

472
00:31:29.059 --> 00:31:37.450
Exactly. Exactly. So anytime I hear about somebody getting canceled,

473
00:31:38.509 --> 00:31:42.210
I say, I want to hear what they have to say. Okay.

474
00:31:42.289 --> 00:31:46.990
There's a woman, this country music girl who's really big

475
00:31:47.029 --> 00:31:52.819
right now. She's huge. What's her name? She's got a

476
00:31:52.859 --> 00:31:56.710
big hit about Texas. getting what this girl's name is

477
00:31:56.750 --> 00:32:01.410
but she's gigantic she gets multi-million views and i was

478
00:32:01.470 --> 00:32:07.089
reading oh she's she's too controversial and i said really

479
00:32:07.769 --> 00:32:11.109
she's controversial so i listened to a couple of her

480
00:32:11.170 --> 00:32:14.660
songs and all she was singing about was like going

481
00:32:14.700 --> 00:32:16.759
on a date with a guy falling in love and

482
00:32:16.799 --> 00:32:21.019
some you know really innocuous shit but that was so

483
00:32:21.700 --> 00:32:26.359
provocative to all these people on the other side that

484
00:32:26.400 --> 00:32:33.680
they said she's controversial. 50 years ago, she was normal.

485
00:32:34.259 --> 00:32:36.359
If we worried about that back then, there would be

486
00:32:36.420 --> 00:32:42.009
no Wendy O. Williams. There would be no Joan Jett, probably.

487
00:32:42.369 --> 00:32:46.930
There would be no mentors. Remember the mentors? S.O.D. would

488
00:32:46.970 --> 00:32:47.990
be canceled today.

489
00:32:49.339 --> 00:32:54.839
All of those bands, even 80s hair metal bands, Okay.

490
00:32:55.539 --> 00:32:59.529
I mean, you know, I talked to these bands. I

491
00:32:59.589 --> 00:33:02.769
talked to them. My bass player is in four different bands.

492
00:33:03.849 --> 00:33:06.529
And he said, no, we can't do that. You know, no,

493
00:33:06.589 --> 00:33:11.049
we can't do that. Don't do this. I told the guy,

494
00:33:11.269 --> 00:33:13.710
my bass player said, okay, we're going to shoot a

495
00:33:13.730 --> 00:33:16.599
video in a strip club. And he said, no, I

496
00:33:16.630 --> 00:33:18.660
can't do it. And I said, why?

497
00:33:18.680 --> 00:33:21.680
I said, why? He said, I'll be canceled.

498
00:33:23.000 --> 00:33:25.119
I said, who the fuck cares if you're canceled? You're

499
00:33:25.160 --> 00:33:30.170
nobody anyway. See, a lot of these kids, they think

500
00:33:30.230 --> 00:33:33.650
because they're in one or two minor bands that play

501
00:33:33.670 --> 00:33:36.450
in front of 20 people that they're huge stars already

502
00:33:37.470 --> 00:33:40.789
and that they have a huge platform and they're afraid

503
00:33:40.829 --> 00:33:43.750
to lose their huge platform. I said, you don't have

504
00:33:43.789 --> 00:33:47.240
a platform. You're nobody. Nobody gives a fuck about you

505
00:33:47.819 --> 00:33:51.460
and you're worried about being canceled. You think you're Kanye West?

506
00:33:51.480 --> 00:33:51.880
You're not.

507
00:33:53.700 --> 00:33:57.789
Well, there was a band recently that we know pretty well,

508
00:33:57.829 --> 00:34:03.130
I won't mention their name, that the lead person of

509
00:34:03.190 --> 00:34:06.990
that band, who was canceled from another band back in

510
00:34:07.029 --> 00:34:13.460
the 80s, ended up canceling his long-term bass player just

511
00:34:13.519 --> 00:34:17.159
because of some story from back in the 80s. Like,

512
00:34:18.159 --> 00:34:21.639
you know what? every single person in music in the

513
00:34:22.099 --> 00:34:26.179
80s would be canceled based on that same story.

514
00:34:26.739 --> 00:34:30.469
Okay, I know who you're talking about. I'm not going

515
00:34:30.489 --> 00:34:32.429
to mention them either, but I know who you're talking about.

516
00:34:33.670 --> 00:34:42.369
And to me, that incident was making somebody guilty before

517
00:34:42.429 --> 00:34:48.380
they're proven guilty. No doubt. What happened... was to me

518
00:34:48.420 --> 00:34:52.199
a nothing burger, okay? But because the boss of the

519
00:34:52.239 --> 00:34:55.599
band was so worried about being canceled, he said, oh,

520
00:34:56.059 --> 00:34:59.000
I better get ahead of this and kick the guy out.

521
00:35:00.079 --> 00:35:02.340
Yeah, what kind of friend is that? Like, they've been

522
00:35:02.380 --> 00:35:02.960
friends forever.

523
00:35:02.980 --> 00:35:05.139
These guys worked together for 40 years.

524
00:35:05.639 --> 00:35:08.230
No doubt. And I was just with that person. He's

525
00:35:08.269 --> 00:35:10.349
the nicest person in the world. I was just with

526
00:35:10.389 --> 00:35:14.670
him this weekend, you know? And, you know, how do

527
00:35:14.710 --> 00:35:18.090
you just... Get rid of not just a bandmate, but

528
00:35:18.150 --> 00:35:23.010
a friend like that over something that's ancient history that

529
00:35:23.050 --> 00:35:24.730
we don't even know if it's true or not.

530
00:35:25.309 --> 00:35:28.809
My best advice to that guy is, you know what?

531
00:35:29.329 --> 00:35:33.110
You're better off. If that's who your friends are, get

532
00:35:33.650 --> 00:35:34.110
rid of them.

533
00:35:35.170 --> 00:35:39.199
No doubt about it. A hundred percent. Like I have

534
00:35:39.420 --> 00:35:43.579
no respect for that. you know, you should stand up

535
00:35:43.639 --> 00:35:46.429
for your bandmates. You should stand up for your friends.

536
00:35:46.929 --> 00:35:49.769
And especially when you have that long of a relationship,

537
00:35:49.789 --> 00:35:53.489
because I don't think anybody else in music that ever

538
00:35:53.590 --> 00:35:58.469
played with that band has ever stuck around and put

539
00:35:58.550 --> 00:36:02.760
up with more shit for such a long time as him.

540
00:36:02.989 --> 00:36:05.800
And then you don't have any loyalty. I'm big into loyalty.

541
00:36:06.900 --> 00:36:08.820
He should have had loyalty for him.

542
00:36:09.619 --> 00:36:15.760
The thing is, okay. When you run into a serious problem, situation,

543
00:36:16.760 --> 00:36:21.619
that's when you see what people are really made out of, okay?

544
00:36:22.340 --> 00:36:26.239
When everybody's doing great, everybody's at the top, riding high,

545
00:36:26.300 --> 00:36:29.699
making money, blah, blah, blah, with a smiley face, you

546
00:36:29.719 --> 00:36:32.710
don't know who that person is. When you get down

547
00:36:33.230 --> 00:36:36.650
in the nitty gritty, okay, like I have been many,

548
00:36:36.690 --> 00:36:40.070
many times, you're going to see who they really are.

549
00:36:40.730 --> 00:36:41.090
No doubt.

550
00:36:41.110 --> 00:36:43.909
Okay? Who they really, the mask comes off.

551
00:36:44.469 --> 00:36:44.789
Okay.

552
00:36:45.510 --> 00:36:48.650
Then you say, now I see who this guy is. Okay.

553
00:36:50.110 --> 00:36:52.849
So for that guy, he's better off.

554
00:36:53.849 --> 00:36:57.550
No doubt. I've had the same experiences. Like I've had

555
00:36:57.610 --> 00:37:00.900
a major roller coaster in my life and lots of

556
00:37:01.179 --> 00:37:04.599
things that I've gone through. And you're right. It's not

557
00:37:04.679 --> 00:37:08.219
when you're doing okay that you know who people are

558
00:37:08.239 --> 00:37:12.150
that are surrounding you. It's when you hit bottom. that

559
00:37:12.190 --> 00:37:16.610
you really find out who you should be surrounding yourself with.

560
00:37:17.190 --> 00:37:20.409
I'll tell you the easiest way to get rid of

561
00:37:20.469 --> 00:37:23.000
someone in your life. All you got to do is

562
00:37:23.039 --> 00:37:24.239
loan them a hundred dollars.

563
00:37:26.300 --> 00:37:27.860
That's pretty true.

564
00:37:27.940 --> 00:37:31.559
You'll never see them again. If you got someone in

565
00:37:31.599 --> 00:37:33.170
your life that you want to get rid of, say, hey,

566
00:37:33.460 --> 00:37:35.980
I'm going to loan you a hundred bucks. Okay. You'll

567
00:37:36.000 --> 00:37:38.679
never see them. Absolutely. Absolutely.

568
00:37:39.280 --> 00:37:41.860
So tell everybody with the new album how they can

569
00:37:41.920 --> 00:37:46.659
get it and any other information about the album that

570
00:37:46.679 --> 00:37:47.760
they should look out for.

571
00:37:48.820 --> 00:37:53.849
Okay, the album comes out October 23rd on Back on

572
00:37:53.929 --> 00:38:00.360
Black Records. It's a British label and they have worldwide reach.

573
00:38:00.760 --> 00:38:04.460
They're the biggest label I've ever been signed to. So

574
00:38:04.679 --> 00:38:08.699
they're going to be everywhere. You know, all the regular

575
00:38:08.820 --> 00:38:13.940
Amazons plus all of your other chain stores mail order.

576
00:38:14.920 --> 00:38:18.710
They got their own website called Plastic Head Distribution for

577
00:38:18.889 --> 00:38:24.510
UK and Europe and America. They'll be everywhere. I've already

578
00:38:24.550 --> 00:38:28.139
looked at all the sites. You know, the record's already

579
00:38:28.260 --> 00:38:32.500
up on pre-order on a lot of sites. And so

580
00:38:32.780 --> 00:38:35.139
it won't be hard to find. We're worldwide. It's going

581
00:38:35.159 --> 00:38:39.329
to be out in Japan, U.S., Canada, Mexico, worldwide.

582
00:38:40.550 --> 00:38:45.869
Nice. And do you have any plans for any tours, festivals,

583
00:38:46.030 --> 00:38:46.969
live shows?

584
00:38:47.789 --> 00:38:52.880
Okay, well, let me tell you about that. October 23rd,

585
00:38:53.900 --> 00:38:57.539
if I'm still alive and not in jail, I'm going

586
00:38:57.559 --> 00:39:03.360
to be dropping some serious videos. And these videos are extreme.

587
00:39:04.679 --> 00:39:09.320
And there's going to be so much fallout from these videos.

588
00:39:10.969 --> 00:39:14.650
It'll probably take a couple months to assimilate all the fallout.

589
00:39:15.650 --> 00:39:19.230
So after that, then I'll have to make decisions about

590
00:39:19.250 --> 00:39:21.170
what we're going to do as far as live playing.

591
00:39:21.909 --> 00:39:27.309
Because if there was ever any moment in history that

592
00:39:27.349 --> 00:39:30.519
I'm going to be permanently canceled, it'll be October 21st. 23rd.

593
00:39:32.280 --> 00:39:35.019
Well, let's look out for that because you are a

594
00:39:35.119 --> 00:39:40.579
badass that doesn't do anything but be authentically you, make

595
00:39:40.619 --> 00:39:47.329
great music, and still lives that life of standing for

596
00:39:47.349 --> 00:39:49.289
the people instead of the state.

597
00:39:50.289 --> 00:39:51.570
That's right. You got it.

598
00:39:52.809 --> 00:39:56.389
Well, thanks a lot for keep doing this because certainly

599
00:39:56.409 --> 00:39:58.940
you don't have to. You do it because you love it.

600
00:39:59.190 --> 00:40:01.230
You do it because you want it. And you do

601
00:40:01.269 --> 00:40:04.380
it for us, the listeners. And for that, you are

602
00:40:04.409 --> 00:40:07.860
a true musician. And that's what makes you a rock star.

603
00:40:08.679 --> 00:40:11.079
You got it, Dean. Thanks a lot for having me on.

604
00:40:11.139 --> 00:40:14.059
It's great to see you again. Absolutely.

605
00:40:14.099 --> 00:40:16.519
Great seeing you again. And thanks once again for being

606
00:40:16.579 --> 00:40:18.460
on the Adventures of Pipe Man. And I hope to

607
00:40:18.480 --> 00:40:21.909
hear a lot more from you. Especially after October 23rd.

608
00:40:22.710 --> 00:40:29.539
You got it! Thank you for listening to The Adventures

609
00:40:29.619 --> 00:40:32.079
of Pikeman on W4CY Radio.