Devin Townsend "The Moth is about the journey—but it is also about arrival” – PipemanRadio Interview

0:04 Hi, you love don too censure wow for you young. This is the Pipe Man here on the Invention's Pipe Man W four c Y Radio. And I'm very excited about our next guest because there is music dropping tomorrow that is like so badass I can't even believe it. So let's welcome to the show, Devin Townsend. Now are you. I'm good, buddy, Thank you for having me on. Oh My Pleasure, or as you're probably better known as pissy pants.

0:44 Man mayor of Groovytown. I love it. I love it. Not a title that that one should sniff that man, it takes a while to to reach that echelon. That's right, that's right. So I gotta tell you, I was listening to the new album Them, you know before it comes out, and oh my god, I felt like I was in a heavy metal, pink Floyd cinematic movie. Yeah, yeah, man, I think I think the objective for the Moth was essentially like like sort of like an audio cinema. That it's like we're trying to make a soundtrack for a movie that doesn't exist, I guess in a sense. So I appreciate the acknowledgment of that. Man.

1:28 Well, you know, It's funny because before I even read, like, I read something, but before I ever read it, I'm like, you know, after listening to music, I'm like, I was going to ask you when's the movie going come out? And then I read something that said it's basically. Like an unnamed movie. So it was like, the music definitely sends that message. Yeah, I appreciate it. I think that the main the main objectives for any record that I have done throughout my career, and specifically this one is too too as accurately as as possible described through sound like a period of time, right, like, yeah, in the past couple of years.

2:12 I mean, I don't know what your past couple of years have been like, but uh, it's been a little. Chaotic, and it is a bit chaotic in a lot of ways. So as a result of that, my typical way of writing music has always just been like, whatever goes in is going to come out right, And so having had such such a chaotic few years, man, it's it's of no surprise that that the music is as is as over the top and strange as it is. But again, the primary objective is to just be as accurate to the vision as possible. So in that regard, yeah, that's exactly what it needed to be well.

2:53 And to me, music is the best therapy and it's got to take you on a journey, and I think we're kind of missing that in a lot of new music these days because of people's attention span. They make shorter songs and it's all singles and there's like no flow to it. That's why I mentioned the Pink Floyd factor, because like you listen at Darkseide, you go somewhere else, okay, and you escape all the chaos. And I had that same feeling listening to your new album. It was like, I'm just on a journey somewhere. You know. Well, we're certainly all on journeys, right, And I think that the journey for me is it included all this work that I've done up to this point. And I've said in a couple interviews so far that there's in my mind at least a distinct before and after of the Moth, and moving forward there will be all the work that I had done prior, like the Strappings and the Kingdoms and the Zeltoids and all that. And then there was this weird gray pylon in the road, which was the moth and then after that it's it's now in a state of okay, so what's the next phase for you? And not necessarily even on a musical level, just like as a person, like where did you land?

4:12 Like where are you? And I think that if I ever had any advice for any musicians that are up and coming or younger musicians that maybe are looking to the career that I've had, as you know, what would you do? It's like you just have to be doggedly in service of wherever you find yourself. And you know, these things turn on a dime, like life changes, a loss of friends and money and all these things that go into it. It's you can't predict what is going to happen with your life. But as an artist, I think that the primary objective is like allowing your creative catalyst to sort of go and whichever direction that seems to like I want to go. And you know, I think for myself over the years, the amount of times that I've started a project in one place and then ended in another is like eighty percent. And it's always been to the chagrin of the record labels and whatever they're Like you said, this was going to be an easier record, said this was going to be this, and I'm like, I know, but the circumstances had something else in mind, right, So.

5:25 I think that's what makes you a true musician, to be honest, because like I remember when I was playing guitar as a teenager and I did suck, but my dad used to say, like, you should give that up. You don't even know what you're doing. And what I was doing at the time, I was saying, I was just like experimenting what sounds I could make it do, not like copy everybody else. I just wanted to experiment. And that's the vibe I got while I was listening to him, like, oh man, that's something that I think we need coming back and is starting to come back. Is that musicianship where you're experimenting and not just doing some cookie cutter thing to put something out there.

6:08 Yeah, it's it's a it's a risk though, you know what I mean. It is it's like, uh, you know, specifically when the visions in the scale of those visions are as large as they tend to be with me, it's like every time you do something, it costs you everything, right, and uh, to be willing to sort of put that sort of attention and focus onto ideas that are really not commercially viable is always been where my interests lay. And it's it's it's you know that I've been doing it for so long now that I'm just like, I just keep pushing that as far as I can go. It's it's when somebody had said, you know, what's the objectives of like what you're doing with your company or with your record label and all this, I'm like, well, tell you what it is. It's like, I like putting together a bunch of brilliant artists who are maybe bored with their normal jobs and you know whatever. It is like taking the wrinkles out of Jim Carrey's neck for number two or whatever, right like, and then see like, well, let's apply that same kind of ferocious intent onto something that's just like abstract in nature. And that's always been where my interests lie. It's like, well, what can we do that's creative, interesting and fun, that is rooted ultimately in experimentation. It's it's like it's always been sort of where my interests lie. And it's in some sense it's

7:38 a shame that that my interest never lay in like, you know, what would be the best pop song that we could write, or what would be the most would be the most linear pathway to another heavy metal record. It's like these things make a lot more sense in twenty twenty six in the music industry as opposed to let's just bury everything into this abstract, you know, orchestral thing about the changing tides of my life personally and life in general. Dude, it doesn't make any sense to do something like this, but it's what I want to do. So that's what we do and until such time that we can't, And that's just what I do, you know, And that's what my brand, I guess represents.

8:19 I think it should be that way. I mean, I've always said, like, let the creativity be for the artists and the business end be for the suits. And I've been on both sides of the fence. But I remember back in the eighties. I was in LA in the eighties and a lot of my friends they were getting signed and these record labels were telling them how to change their music and change her look. And I was like, yeah, no, I'm out. I'm out. That's why I didn't get good at guitar because I was like, no, I wouldn't want to do that. I would want to be true to me, and you're being true to you. I am. And I think that the you know, the practical realities of it are the things that are the next step for me, because you know, I've got a staff of people, and we've got mortgage and studio and all the lights to keep on and all that, and you you get to a point, I think at a certain at a certain stage where you have decisions to make.

9:14 It's like in order to take certain steps, it's like, you know, you can be asked to do this, like whatever it is, like something that maybe compromises what your intent is or maybe put you back in time doing things that you've been over for a long time. Regardless of what it is. Dude, it's like those options become like like practical considerations. At some point you're just like, okay, we can't continue like this, so do we do this or whatever? And at that point, my whole reason to be has been sort of contingent on that moment. But it just keeps moving forward. You know. It's like it's like I'm just like, Okay, I'm going to do this, and by doing this, I'm never going to be able to do this again. So there's been the amount of times that I've chosen to go that route, whether it was strapping back in the day or ziltoid or EmPATH or dream piece or whatever, that frame of mind has been like a big part of my trip. And every time I do that, I'm like, Okay, damn the torpedoes, let's do this, and then by this time next year we'll probably be broken. We'll have to like quit. So that's but you know, it's been thirty eight years of that, and.

10:23 So you're still here. So the only thing that is also still here that I would like to see go away is that constant sort of amber alert anxiety feeling of like, yeah, the ass is going to fall out of everything, right. But I will say that I'm not alone with that feeling. I'm sure most of us feel that at this point. So I think that for me, the decisions to make these things that are rooted much more and like you know, frankly sort of selfish artistic musings. I figure, Man, if we're going to have to do this anyway, I might as well just do the things that I want to do, as you know, utilizing all this stuff to just essentially have a day job that I don't care.

11:07 About, right yeah, And I mean that's why I say, if you're going to be an artist, you might as well be true yourself and and then you're going to attract your tribe. You know, you're going to attract the people that appreciate and understand or get something out of what you're doing. That's the hope. And I and I would much rather have a smaller, uh group of those than than you know, a larger group of people that I'm beholden to for things that I no longer am interested in, right So so, but I mean, do these shade these choices are are ones that are not ones to be taken lightly. And and also they're not ones that that happens so far under the surface that you're not aware of them. Right Like, Like, whenever I've made a decision to go and in in uh in a direction that's like you know, fiercely non you know, friendly, it hasn't been one that I was an accident. It was like, okay, you can do this if this is what your choice is. And I've chosen to do that consistently but no more so than I have with Moth, almost to draw a line in the sand.

12:20 It's almost like, you know, if by doing this industry at large, it's like, yeah, it's not for us, it's not for any part of the industry, including your demographic Right at that point, I know that the decision I need to make moving forward is like, Okay, well do you still want to do this, because it's like, well, this won't work. But if you go back to i don't know, like playing metal full time in your mid fifties or whatever, then you can kind of sustain this. There's a part of it. It's just like, oh, well there's my decision. Then yeah, you know, but I think that the only way you're going to be able to make a decision like that is to sort of damn the torpedo. And do it. Yeah, no risk, no reward.

13:03 Well this is it. So basically I built a facility and did the Moth and did Ruby Quaker and did all these things. Not because it's a wise business move, not because this is like some financial plan that I'm you know, like by doing A to B two C. At the end of it, you don't have to work anymore. It's like none of that plays into it. I'm just like, I'm like, the only things that interest me when it comes to being a musician now are things like dream, peace or moth or any of this abstract stuff. Right. So I'm gonna do that with my full heart. And if I'm meant to sustain a life as a professional musician, then I'll know. And if I'm not, if it's like, no, I didn't work, You're gonna have to scramble to try and keep this going. I'm like, I'd rather not to be honest, I don't blame it. Yeah, I'd rather have a life that was like completely separate from this, like nuke all of this and then just like say okay, so and so the line in the sand for me with the Moth was like it's either I do this like this with this studio or I don't do it at all. Yeah, And it's like, uh, you know, because the others saying it's like, oh, will you do this and you bring your costs down, you do this, and then you go to the studio and you can do it like put make sure that you focus on the chorus or you know, make sure you're screaming more and I'm just like, dude, I don't want to do that.

14:25 I just don't want to do it. So and what would I rather do, dide, I'd rather do yard work. I'd rather garden, I'd rather you know, like I'd rather focus on mental health or my nutrition or things like that. Those are things that I would prefer to do then struggle to maintain a studio only to do music that I'm no longer interested in. So the again, the line in the Sand for the Moth and dream Piece and Ruby Quaker was just like, I'm putting everything into this not because I'm hoping that it will succeed, just because if it doesn't, then it's way more efficient for me to know. Yeah, and you know, speaking of you know, mental health, I mean if you're not if you're an artist, especially, I think if you're not creating the music that is you and your part of your soul, that is not good for your mental health.

15:21 It is not good for your mental or physical health because you're constantly chasing the approval of people who expect you to be something that you're not. So you're an actor all of a sudden, and it's like, you know, for me, I'm just like I have no desire to do that, like, and it's not there's no flippancy to that, there's no anger to it. It's just like, Okay, at this age, what do you want to do? And so basically I was like, when the Moth came up, and when the idea of like you know, building a studio or whatever came up, anybody in my world managed and financially record labels just like, I don't know if that's the best thing to do. And I'm like, well, I'm gonna do it, and then at the end of it, I'll.

16:10 Know, Yeah, you don't know if you don't try. If you don't try, you don't know anyway. So what I've done, this is what I've done. And so you know, this record gets released tomorrow, and you know, if everybody collectively is just like eh, then I'm like, okay, great, So what's my next step in the year. What's my next step in the year? Because when people are coming back going, you know, you can continue to do things like the Moth if you go out and you do this and you you know, you do the you know, you know all this sort of thing, and I'm just like, yeah, but I don't want to I do. I'm cool with doing things like the Moth. I'm cool with doing things like dream Peace. I'm cool with doing things like Puzzle. I'm cool with doing things like Axe Lotel or any of these. Like, you know, I'm working on this crazy like plug in product called the Seeker that's like interesting to me. And even that, it's like I remember bringing this this pedal plugin thing to the people that are going to be building it for us, right, and they're like, they're like, it's going to cost a fortune to do this, and it's a super fucking weird product. You know, if you want to make money, why don't you do like a you know, a version of an eight oh eight distortion pedal with like just a slightly different tone stack in it. I'm like, cause it's fucking boring, dude, Like I just don't care. There's like forty of those available now that I don't have to invest in. Like, yeah, but you can keep a sustainable enterprise going if you do that, And I'm like, yeah, but I just that's not what I want to do. It's like I don't want to make pedals. I don't want to make overdrive pedals,

17:41 but I do want to make this secret thing. It's super interesting to me. The same thing people are going, well, you know, if you go back out and you play metal and you go out and you do this sort of thing with a full band and all this stuff, you can kind of get those tours and keep going. I'm like, yeah, I don't want to do that, though, Like. I should say that part too, because I have this memory from a couple of years ago that I absolutely love your brutal honesty. I'm like originally from New York and New Jersey, so I like brutal honesty. Okay, And you were doing the press conference at Hellfest and you were talking about touring and how like not the glorifying of it, but the exact opposite. And it was so funny because like I go and I do radio coverage at festivals all over the US, UK, Europe, and like last year, I only even think I had a weekend.

18:36 I wasn't at a festival with so much and people are like, oh, you're living a dream life. And part of that's true, yeah, but they don't see the other part of it, like you talked about in the press conference of like literally it's shit. Sometimes it's like. Taking a dump and a bag on a thirty five degree day with Watain playing in the background at a fucking one hundred and forty dB at twelve in the afternoon. You know what I mean, You're just like you're like, you know, like dude. But but again, this is where it's interesting to me because the projects like the Moth or the project Dreampece are puzzle or seeker, any of these things that I'm currently doing, I'm interested in. They're fun.

19:22 So it's not like, although, like anything, there's certain aspects of it that are struggle and require you know, tenacity and diligence and whatever. Overall the things that I'm able to do right now, I'm really like like psychedon, Like it's fun for. You see that. That's the way it has to be in my opinion, Like I say it all the time, if you're going to be in the music business, you better have that because otherwise everything else sucks, so you might as well just go do something else. So that's what I'm saying. So we're gonna find out what the Moth right like if it's if people are just like, yeah, don't give a fuck about this, and you know, right, so why should they it's not important. It's just the next thing that I did right. But if people don't like it, then dude, I know where I'm at because I'm like, well, it's not getting any more linear than this. I guarantee you, you know, moving forward, Man, it's not gonna there's it's not gonna go more. This is just a three and a half minute song about how I've loved and lost and learned my lesson or any of that shit. I'm just guy like, no, man, I just it's either I make weird ass motherfucking shit and do it with a group of people who are incredibly creative, brilliant people and we enjoy the process because it's things that are left to center, or I find another thing to do right and I'm cool with that.

20:41 And this is the uh, this is the line in the sand and I I and either way, I just want to know it's there's no there's no like, oh that's a shame or or oh that's surprising. I'm just kind of like, Okay, good, where are we at. I don't want to waste any more time. This is what I do. This is who I You like it? No, okay, great? Thanks? Well when I was listening to it. I was thinking myself, oh man, he could do like Danny Effman's doing and do some like Marvel movies or DC movies or. Something play well with others. Though when it comes to that shit. I don't even mean you doing them. I mean just this music like it could apply to something like that, you know, or it just has that whole like I just was sitting, I was taking a long drive and just listened to the whole thing and I couldn't even tell where the song separated. A lot of times with That's the killer about a whole album that's like that, because it's like you are doing so good that you don't even know that you're a different song.

21:47 That means you've escaped your reality. And that's what music should do. Yeah, I think you you escape it by by confronting it. You know, the reality, and you know the more that I have spent time with this project and with this frame of mind, right, the frame of mind being specifically I care about the audience, but my objectives are moving forward. I don't want to do this unless I'm doing something that interests me. Yeah, And the distinction between doing music that interests me in music that doesn't interest me, or is whether or not it applies to my current reality. Otherwise, dude, you're not singing from any point reference point of authority.

22:35 You're just you're acting again, You're making it up. You're like, what would somebody who thinks like this write? And it's like, you know, the people who really follow the career, whether or not they like where I've landed, they're gonna know immediately they're like always full of shit. Well, yeah, it's funny you should say that because, like somebody have interviewed a few times, so I'm friendly with Joe from the he knows I won't ask a certain question that everybody else asks. So when are the Vandals gonna have new music? He said, he'll do like in the interview with me because he knows I won't ask. He goes, and don't ask me when the Vandals are gonna have new music, because nobody wants to see a fifty something year old right punk rock music.

23:19 Or play industrial thrash metal. I mean, I think it's like now and I've got to go to this next interview. Yes, but now is really the point, not only in my professional history, but I almost think just the world at large, where we've had this opportunity to be thrust into a reflective state on our own lives, on what the where we place value, what has value at this point, whether it was friends and family, or if it's work, or if it's money or whatever it is. I think that as a society, we've we've had the veil sort of removed from these things that we had ascribed value to for so long. You know, like any question it's like, oh, you become famous, or you go to university for to be a doctor or whatever, and then all of a sudden, those things no longer hold the same kind of like confirmed social uh collateral that they once did. You're just like, oh shit, okay, so left with this as like an actual option. Who are you? What do you want to do?

24:26 And I'm so grateful for being posed that question in my own life. Would I like to be able to continue doing what I do with the group of people that I have in this place that I've you know, built to do it? Hell yeah, but I don't want to do it. If I have to do something that I'm not interested. In, well I think it will happen. Because the moth is badass just saying everybody's gotta check it out. And I thank you for like making this creative project that I think is just absolute pure musicianship.

25:06 You brother, and thanks for being on the Adventures of Pipemin. We'll talk to you soon and thanks again. Hey, this is Devin Townsend and you are currently listening to the Pipe Main on W four c Y Radio. Thank you for listening to the Adventures of Pipemin on W for CUI Radio.