Nov. 2, 2025

PipemanRadio Interviews IN VIRTUE About Desolation Throne & Age of Legends

Melodic and Merciless IN VIRTUE Unveils New Music Video "Desolation Throne" New Album "Age of Legends" Out Nov 2025 Los Angeles progressive power metal band In Virtue has dropped another irresistible music video, “Desolation Throne”, in support of...

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Melodic and Merciless IN VIRTUE Unveils New Music Video "Desolation Throne"

New Album "Age of Legends" Out Nov 2025

Los Angeles progressive power metal band In Virtue has dropped another irresistible music video, “Desolation Throne”, in support of their long-awaited concept album "Age of Legends," set to release on November 21st, 2025.

“Desolation Throne” is a sonic and emotional powerhouse, channeling the tortured ascent of Sisyphus to a self-made throne of darkness. Vocalist and songwriter Trey Xavier (founder of the website GearGods.net) delivers a commanding performance inspired by Symphony X’s Russell Allen, blending gritty cleans with metalcore chugging reminiscent of early Unearth and Killswitch Engage. The track’s bridge, Trey’s personal favorite moment on the album, dives deep into the character’s emotional insecurity and his destructive response to being misunderstood.

The video’s release marks a major milestone in a journey over a decade in the making. "Age of Legends" is more than an album; it’s a cathartic narrative of self-forgiveness, transformation, and rebirth. Inspired by the myth of Sisyphus, the album follows a flawed protagonist seeking redemption not from the gods, but from himself.

“It’s about releasing ourselves from guilt and regret, because until you do, you can’t do any good in the world, for yourself or anyone else,” explains Trey.

Musically, "Age of Legends" delivers a unified emotional journey, driven by thunderous riffs, infectious grooves, and cinematic layers that heighten the story’s most intense moments, not for show, but for substance. In Virtue’s signature sound, heavy, fast, melodic, catchy, and groovy, draws from influences like Soilwork, Amaranthe, Shinedown, Symphony X, and Sonata Arctica, yet carves out its own identity beyond genre conventions.

Born from a passion for power metal and a rejection of its fantasy tropes, In Virtue creates music rooted in real-world emotion, personal philosophy, and raw vulnerability.

“This album is the full realization of our sound. It’s a concept piece that casual listeners can vibe with, but those who dig deeper will find a flawed character fighting for self-forgiveness. It’s immersive, cohesive, and meant to be experienced start to finish, with headphones on and the world tuned out,” says frontman Trey.

The album’s artwork, created by Niklas Sundin (formerly of Dark Tranquillity), depicts Sisyphus breaking free from his eternal punishment, a visual metaphor for the album’s core theme of self-liberation.

Fans can immerse themselves in the world of In Virtue through the “Desolation Throne” video, an uncompromising glimpse into the soul of a band that refuses to play by the rules.

Watch the music video via its premiere on MetalInsider HERE. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXv06-7rg2w

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WEBVTT

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Hy you have done to the censure. W wow, crazy young.

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I get to the top of the hill where I

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can see you.

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For this is pipe Man here on the Adventures pipe

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Man W four c Y Radio. And I'm very excited

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about our next guest because man, they have some pure

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asque music. And uh, I think it's rather funny as

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somebody that's from the LA eighties metal scene that my

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band's left LA to go to Bay Area and I

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had to hitchhike up to the Bear Bay Area that

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he actually went from the Bay Area to LA. So

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it's like we've gone full circle in all these decade.

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You went the same path as Metallica.

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Then yes, well it went from to the bay Yes, well,

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Metallica and Slayer. Metallica first, I was at their first

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show ever. I was at Slayer's first show ever. And

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then what happened was, you know, both Metallica and Slayer

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couldn't play with anybody in LA. So that's why they

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left the Bay Area. It got ridiculous, Like I saw

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a striper open for Slayer. That's how bad it was.

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That's that's who you could get as opener for Slayer. Uh.

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So you know, basically once they deserted us, convert us

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to Thrash mellow Heads, and then deserted us. We had

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to you know, hitchhike up to the Bay Area to

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go to the real shows.

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Yeah. Well, I mean then, I'm sure you saw shows

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at Slash, played at probably the Phoenix.

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I don't even remember most of them because well that's

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just all the all the places you know that were

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there back then. You know. You know what they say

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is if you were like, uh in that scene in

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the eighties, especially the Sunset Strip scene which we lived in,

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and you remember it, you weren't really there. Yeah, like

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I remember things, but some specifics O don't remember. I

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remember La specifics more than Bay Area specifics for sure.

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Yeah.

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But you know what we didn't get to do because

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we're talking about this cool shit is introduce you, you.

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Know, so we should do that.

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That might be a good idea so people know who

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I'm talking to. They might think you're like the new

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member of Metallicers, Right. It is kind of funny to

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let yeah, let let's let people get you know what's

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funny As I just interviewed a band that Incarceration Music

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Festival here in the States at shawshank Prison. You know

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that that the band's name was of Virtue.

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Yeah, it was aware of them.

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Yeah. It was so funny because I was like, when

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I saw this, I'm like, didn't I just interview them?

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And then I'm like, oh, no, it wasn't them. It

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was of Virtue. So this is Trey from in Virtue,

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and I think I like in Virtue better than of Virtue.

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Well it's it seems like a very small preposition, but

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it says a lot and changes the context quite a bit.

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Our name, that's what I'm saying.

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Derived from Shakespeare. Nice, the rarer action is in Virtue

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than in vengeance from the Tempest.

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Very good. See, that's what I love about metal music

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is people don't realize that most metal music has so

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much history and educational value to it.

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A lot of it does. A lot of it is

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just dumb, which is also which is also good, can

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be good. There's a lot of you know, I don't

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I don't necessarily want smart guy depth all of the time.

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Sometimes I want caveman dumb two. Well that's true, but yeah,

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there's I think I try to put as much rich

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sort of depth into everything that I write as I

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can but also I do appreciate just a real ignorant breakdown,

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and just I listen to a lot of different kinds of.

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Stuff, and as most of.

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Us, I enjoy a real good chuggy mosh with you know.

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On one note, right, I'm glad you said that because

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I was talking about that in the last interview today

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that you know, I come from the eighties. Eight keeper

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seen you know, where you can like one, even one

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type of metal if you liked another type of metal.

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And I always saw it was stupid because if you

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like music, you like music, and just because you're a

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metal head doesn't mean you only like metal. People kind

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of think that, and some people kind of still act

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that way, but it's stupid. You know. There's so many

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different types of music that like, if you're a music fan,

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I would think you would like a lot of them,

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not just one.

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Yeah, I mean I that sort of thinking really blows

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my mind. It's people will apply tribalism to anything, right.

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I think that's something that doesn't belong in music at all,

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you know, because it's for tribalism is for normies. It's

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for normal brained people who can't appreciate the kind of

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depth that we were just talking about.

91
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I go beyond ormies. Sometimes sometimes I say stupid people

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because they just have to follow something. They don't even

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understand what they're following.

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Well, it tribalism will lead people to It's it's just

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the easiest and lowest way to organize groups of people.

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For if you can't appreciate any kind of subtlety or

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you know, think of people as individuals, it's really easy

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to think of them in these general groups. And if you,

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you know, if you've got a real smooth brain, it's

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it's the easiest form of taxonomy for you to you know,

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And because the alternative is just too complicated, Like, yeah,

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I listen to so many different kinds of music. I

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love top forty pop, I love like. I studied jazz

104
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in college, I love classical music, I like. I just

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did a series of videos on my YouTube channel about

106
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it's called the Songs that Made Me and I just

107
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go through all of the music that really influenced me

108
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the most. And I did a whole episode on nineties

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alternative rock like ever Clear and Wheezer. I did an

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episode on early two thousand's metal Core because I was

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really into like Unearthed kill Switch, engage that kind of stuff.

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Power metal like Sonata Arctica, progressive metal like Dream Theater,

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and like, you know, and it's it's not my religion

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or my personality to just stick to one thing, like

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metal is not a is not a religion or a

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tribe for me. I just love the music and you know.

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Yeah, and you know, it's funny you say that, because

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like we were such gatekeepers back in the eighties. I

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always thought it was stupid. And somebody i I'm friends

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with now that I've interviewed a few times now, the

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first time I interviewed her, I said to her, I'm like,

122
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you know, I wasn't allowed to like you in the

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eighties because you were a new waiver. And I'm like,

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but I'm just gonna say it right now that I

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did like you, and now I can admit it in

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two thousand whatever it was twenty four or three, and that.

127
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Was a certain type of tyrannical, controlling personality that initiates

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that sort of gatekeeping.

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Yeah, and.

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It's like to think about that you would let someone

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else dictate that sort of thing. But we've all been there,

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you know, Like there was one person in every scene

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who was like, no, this is it's just this, but

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it's really just a it's a narcissist.

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Well, it's funny too, because like some of the music

136
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back then was so similar and you were still at odds.

137
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I always saw it was stupid because, like I was

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a long hair, so I couldn't go to punk shows,

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even though I liked punk, and punks can go to

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metal shows because they were punks. And I thought it

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was stupid because the jocks were bullying both of us.

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We should have banded together against them instead of the

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separatist thing. You know. It's like it's division. It's the

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oldest trick in the book, Divide and Conquered.

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Yeah, and it's usually people doing it to.

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Themselves more totally totally, it's just sad. So I have

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a trivia question for you, based on the beginning of

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our conversation and based on your band. Okay, so you

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were labeled as quote unquote progressive power metal band. I

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say it like that because I hate the freaking labels.

151
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Like musicians shouldn't just the same as we were talking

152
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about the gatekeeper, musicians should just play whatever they want.

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They don't have to be stuck in some label and

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my trivia question will show how ridiculous the labels are. So,

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what band in the eighties was called power metal because

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the actual type of metal they were didn't even exist yet?

157
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What band was called power metal?

158
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I know, they even called themselves power metal.

159
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Pantera had an album called power.

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Metal earlier earlier than that.

161
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Earlier than that.

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Hmm, I'll give you one more hint. It's metallic.

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Metallic.

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Yeah, so they were power metal for like a minute

165
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only because there was no such thing as thrash metal,

166
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so they just lumped them into power metal, which to

167
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me made no sense because they didn't sound like I

168
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like power metal, but they didn't have a power metal sound,

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So I don't know why they were power metal. But

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that shows how ridiculous the labels are, because they had

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to lump them in somewhere.

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Those kinds of genre tags and things like that exist

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for two types of people. Number one for journalists, because

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you got to have something to write in some way

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of classifying this music. And number two for like fans

176
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who are trying to find similar music. It's sort of

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like Pandora before Pandora existed, right, like right, you know,

178
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Pandora like finds music based on traits of something that

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you like, right breaks it down These days, like it's

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become a lot more restrictive because you know, because of

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like this, like the tribalism we talked about, like those

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sorts of things, when in reality, how dumb is it

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that you would go, hey, I only like X style,

184
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and therefore I make it just becomes this like instead

185
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of making art as musicians, we're making just these a

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copy of a copy of a copy. And what when

187
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you do that, what you wind up with is something far,

188
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far worse. It's sort of do you ever see the

189
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movie Mister No Multiplicity? He figures out how to clone himself.

190
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It makes a few clones, but then his clones make

191
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a clone of themselves. Uh and it uh, it's like

192
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really stupid and like messed up because you know, you

193
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make a clone like a copy of a copy, if

194
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you've ever made a xerox, and then yeah, exactly that

195
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you get the degradation, which is can be a cool

196
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effect musically and artistically. But if what you're mad, if

197
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what you're trying to do is just copy someone else

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and make a facsimile, you're not really making good art probably,

199
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And and there's no new music being made instead, and

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you know, in the same way that a you know,

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for example, genetically, when you the way you create like

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a robust dog type, okay, right, Like a purebread dog

203
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is a fucking medical disaster. Right. Anybody who has a

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purebread dog will tell you how much they spend in

205
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vet bills and like they wind up with all these

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terrible problems. But a mutt will live forever, you know,

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you get you get a mutt that's like ten different

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types of dog, and they're unkillable because it's just because

209
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you you know, yay, there's just this strength that happens

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from combining different aspects of things that.

211
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Are I love that and I'll tell you why. So

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to your point, one of the things that bothers me

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today about music, And to add there's one also one

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other very important people company, not people, but types of

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companies that love the genre labels, and that's record labels,

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because they can't sell you if you don't have some

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genre label. You can't be like I was managing ours

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ones that she basically was all different types of genres,

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and Sony was like, well she's got to pick one.

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Yep. You know, there's a my favorite new artist is.

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Her name is Chinchilla from the UK and in one

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of her songs she's talking about this and she literally

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uses the line pick a genre like that. You know,

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she's been told by record exact same thing a genre,

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And like when she's saying that, I was like, like, yeah,

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that sucks. That's right. I understand to a degree the

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sort of business, right, it's rough.

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I think a lot of.

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People, like, for example, when you think of certain record labels,

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a lot of them have like a sound and like,

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I don't know.

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That's why it was really funny when Slayer was on

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def Jam Records because it didn't make sense. But what

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you're saying, you know.

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But you so then you go like, okay, well what's

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for the av consumer for someone who's trying to who

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finds a kind of music that they like and then

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they're like, holy shit, this is amazing. Where do I

239
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get more of this? Like imagine hearing Slayer for the

240
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first time and having no context right right, you'd go like,

241
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what is this? What do I call this? So that

242
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I can find more of them? And then you're like okay,

243
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oh thrash okay, you know, you find a bunch of

244
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other thrash bands, and you'll probably be a pretty happy listener.

245
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But if you are Slayer and you want to do

246
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something else you have, like you want to grow artistically,

247
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you might have some very sad listeners.

248
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But I have a perfect example of that. Two perfect examples. Actually,

249
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one is a recent one, Bring Me to Rizon, you know,

250
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because people were giving them so much hate over the

251
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past few years of you know, making all this different

252
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type of music, and Allie was like, why do I

253
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want to write the same song over and over again?

254
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And I agree with that.

255
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They're a great example because they got a lot better.

256
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Right, That's what I'm saying, is.

257
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Way heavier, way more metal, and it's not good.

258
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It's more melodic now, it's more catchy, it has a

259
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lot more meaning to it. His lyrics have way more

260
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meaning now. But here's another perfect example Metallica. When the

261
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Black album came out, Me and the twenty five original

262
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fans were like, fuck them, posers, sellouts, blah blah blah,

263
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you're not thrash anymore, blah blah blah, bullshit. You know,

264
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But meanwhile, there's the biggest metal band in the world.

265
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And if it weren't for them that we went, we

266
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might not have a lot of metal bands we have today. Now.

267
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The negative part that I find from this other negative

268
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part of because I agree with you wholeheardly, I think

269
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or should not being boxed in, Like as you get

270
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better at your craft, of course, you're going to experiment

271
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and explore, you know, and try see what you can accomplish.

272
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But the point is is that nowadays I find there's

273
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so many subgenres and micro genres of metal that within

274
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those stupid little genres, every band sounds exactly the same

275
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because they're using a formula like if you do post

276
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metal core hardcore, it has to sound exactly like this,

277
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you know, type of thing. And I find it's so

278
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ridiculous how these labels have become that when I go

279
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on tour and I do coverage at festivals all over

280
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the US, UK, Europe, and one of the fun things

281
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I do is I have the band tell me if

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they were gonna make a genre that was just for

283
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their music, what would they call it? Because that's pretty

284
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much how ridiculous it is nowadays, so finite that it

285
00:19:02.519 --> 00:19:07.000
could be maybe just a couple bands.

286
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I think there's realistically two types of artists. There's innovators

287
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and imitators, okay, and I don't want to I don't

288
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want to exist in a preset genre because I'm trying

289
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to create something new. It doesn't have a name yet,

290
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but I want to be I want to be making

291
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something that inspires so many other people to copy me

292
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that eventually they name a whole genre after us. Virtue metal,

293
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I don't know something like that.

294
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Well, there you go, virtue core.

295
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Like it's you know, everyone starts out as a copy

296
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of you know. Imitation is how we learn, you know.

297
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I copied Dream Theater you know for years because it

298
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was just my favorite band. I just wanted to be

299
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like that until I discovered what I was, you know,

300
00:20:16.279 --> 00:20:18.759
And it takes a long time to get there for

301
00:20:18.839 --> 00:20:22.079
a lot of people. I really did for me, you know.

302
00:20:22.160 --> 00:20:28.079
This is our third release, and I finally feel like

303
00:20:28.519 --> 00:20:32.319
we kind of came up with something that's cohesive. It

304
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feels like one thing, even though obviously as you listen

305
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it's not just it doesn't feel like all one big

306
00:20:41.359 --> 00:20:44.160
song that's the same thing over and over again. There's

307
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a lot of different influences and different sounds and sort

308
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of smaller like styles. But I think we came up

309
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with something that's very unique, but doesn't but doesn't it

310
00:21:00.640 --> 00:21:04.599
doesn't feel like we're just trying to make something new, you.

311
00:21:04.480 --> 00:21:07.240
Know, and it shouldn't. It should just be you being

312
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an artist. And that's what I like about what you

313
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said earlier. I find the best artists nowadays are the bands,

314
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especially that everybody in the band has different influences, because

315
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that's how you create something unique, you know. And so

316
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like you mentioned jazz and classical, and like, first of all,

317
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a lot of people don't realize that metal is a

318
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derivative of classical, so it makes sense. And then look

319
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at somebody like Mustaine. His guitar playing is jazz fused

320
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with metal, you know.

321
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It's it's a lack of to me, a lack of

322
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understanding of how music works, and like not really knowing

323
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that the we're all using the same basic building blocks, right,

324
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and there's actually a lot fewer possibilities and options than

325
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you actually think that there are. Like we're basically working

326
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with twelve notes, right, We're all like in Western music,

327
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more or less, we are all working with the same

328
00:22:18.920 --> 00:22:26.119
twelve notes. The relationships between those notes is finite. Between

329
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any two notes, between any three notes, four notes, et cetera.

330
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And then rhythmically, you know, there like it's a it's

331
00:22:34.640 --> 00:22:38.000
a smaller palette than we think it is, but there's

332
00:22:38.000 --> 00:22:42.200
also still so so so many possible combinations of all

333
00:22:42.240 --> 00:22:49.000
of these things. And when you have like a some

334
00:22:49.039 --> 00:22:53.799
sort of genre leaders, right like melodic death metal, okay,

335
00:22:53.839 --> 00:22:56.880
I immediately think in flames, you know, and they put

336
00:22:56.880 --> 00:23:00.480
out these like four or five whatever albums in their

337
00:23:00.759 --> 00:23:06.640
like early output that really defined what that was going

338
00:23:06.680 --> 00:23:08.720
to be. And now we have all of these people

339
00:23:08.759 --> 00:23:13.279
who loved that and just tried to sort of recreate

340
00:23:13.359 --> 00:23:17.920
it and did it. They didn't learn about the building

341
00:23:17.960 --> 00:23:23.440
blocks of music. Instead, they just learned how this music

342
00:23:23.559 --> 00:23:30.319
was made, and that's their whole vocabulary, and so it

343
00:23:30.440 --> 00:23:33.759
they sort of limited themselves to their own box. And

344
00:23:35.160 --> 00:23:38.680
like it doesn't necessarily mean that what they make is

345
00:23:38.960 --> 00:23:42.480
bad or anything, Like tons of awesome music came out

346
00:23:42.559 --> 00:23:47.200
of it. But I didn't want to be limited to

347
00:23:47.319 --> 00:23:51.720
that at all, which is why I studied music that,

348
00:23:51.920 --> 00:23:54.680
you know, the foundational ideas of all of it from

349
00:23:54.680 --> 00:24:00.839
a sort of objective, analytical way. And it's not that

350
00:24:00.839 --> 00:24:03.759
that's the way for everyone, but I feel like I

351
00:24:03.839 --> 00:24:08.039
just have so much more freedom and ability, a larger

352
00:24:08.079 --> 00:24:09.720
palette to express myself with.

353
00:24:11.079 --> 00:24:15.599
Well, you know, the thing is, too is one thing's

354
00:24:15.640 --> 00:24:20.440
true about music. It evolves, okay, And that's why music

355
00:24:20.519 --> 00:24:25.519
now is different than it was in the two thousand tens,

356
00:24:25.640 --> 00:24:30.000
the two thousands, the nineties, the eighties, the seventies, the sixties,

357
00:24:30.039 --> 00:24:33.279
the fifties. But and I love how you put that

358
00:24:33.359 --> 00:24:36.599
foundation because I look at like even a band like

359
00:24:36.640 --> 00:24:42.119
the Beatles as a foundation for music today, even metal

360
00:24:42.200 --> 00:24:46.000
music today. To me, Helter Skelter is a foundational song

361
00:24:46.119 --> 00:24:49.839
to metal music in my opinion. You know, or you take,

362
00:24:50.039 --> 00:24:53.359
but you take like as an example, going back to

363
00:24:53.640 --> 00:24:56.000
what we were talking about before of you know, the

364
00:24:56.079 --> 00:25:00.119
original like okay, Venom was the original black metal, and

365
00:25:00.880 --> 00:25:04.519
if you listen to black metal now, they would never

366
00:25:04.599 --> 00:25:08.440
consider Venom black metal now. And that's not because they

367
00:25:08.480 --> 00:25:12.720
weren't black metal. It's because black metal evolved. You know,

368
00:25:13.240 --> 00:25:17.720
death metal evolved. They all have evolved, and I think

369
00:25:17.920 --> 00:25:22.319
that's what creates unique music too. Me. Even think about

370
00:25:22.480 --> 00:25:25.000
we were talking about thrash metal, not a big four

371
00:25:25.039 --> 00:25:27.440
of thrash sound the same. You wouldn't think they were

372
00:25:27.440 --> 00:25:30.160
in the same genre because they don't sound the same

373
00:25:30.720 --> 00:25:35.480
because they evolved from what they were into thrash metal.

374
00:25:35.759 --> 00:25:36.279
Same thing.

375
00:25:36.960 --> 00:25:40.960
Yeah, and how do you how do you evolve? How

376
00:25:40.960 --> 00:25:45.359
do you grow as a musician? People don't talk about

377
00:25:45.359 --> 00:25:52.440
it a lot because well, especially in heavy music people,

378
00:25:52.640 --> 00:25:56.079
you know, fans get really pissed when you change. Oh yeah,

379
00:25:56.240 --> 00:26:01.079
they get bored if you don't, but they gets if

380
00:26:01.119 --> 00:26:08.960
you do. But what actually instantiates that growth is or

381
00:26:09.039 --> 00:26:15.039
instigates it, I guess, is exposure to new ideas that

382
00:26:15.079 --> 00:26:21.079
you think that you gravitate towards. Right, Like you, I

383
00:26:21.200 --> 00:26:25.279
view taste in music and taste in food as being

384
00:26:25.359 --> 00:26:31.599
kind of similar because there's not a lot of objective,

385
00:26:31.799 --> 00:26:37.359
rational ways that you can figure out why it is

386
00:26:37.400 --> 00:26:41.519
that somewhat why you like a certain piece of music

387
00:26:41.599 --> 00:26:44.519
or kind of food, Right Like I put a piece

388
00:26:44.519 --> 00:26:49.200
of food in my mouth, and my brain either goes good,

389
00:26:49.839 --> 00:26:52.640
accepts it, or goes nope and rejects it like spit

390
00:26:52.720 --> 00:26:56.960
it out right, that's it. Like, there's probably a whole

391
00:26:57.799 --> 00:27:01.440
deep reasoning behind why I would why I can't eat

392
00:27:01.519 --> 00:27:05.119
fish without you know, like I just hate seafood of

393
00:27:05.160 --> 00:27:10.759
all kind, and why I love cake? Right like cheap

394
00:27:10.799 --> 00:27:14.839
fucking yellow cake like a who makes it like a

395
00:27:14.920 --> 00:27:17.640
Duncan Hinds yellow cake with a chocolate frosting in the

396
00:27:17.759 --> 00:27:20.400
jar that you get right next to the mix. Right.

397
00:27:20.440 --> 00:27:22.599
That's my favorite cake on earth and I could eat

398
00:27:22.640 --> 00:27:25.960
that every day until I died. But I don't know why.

399
00:27:26.079 --> 00:27:29.799
And it's the same with music. You either like it

400
00:27:29.839 --> 00:27:35.960
either resonates with you or it doesn't. And there's probably

401
00:27:36.000 --> 00:27:38.680
some really deep reasons, but I honestly think we will

402
00:27:38.799 --> 00:27:42.519
never find out why. I don't think we'll ever really

403
00:27:42.640 --> 00:27:46.160
understand what it is about these vibrations in the air

404
00:27:46.440 --> 00:27:50.720
and the combinations thereof that stimulate our brain and make

405
00:27:50.839 --> 00:27:55.440
us go crazy, right right, Like a mosh pit is

406
00:27:55.920 --> 00:27:58.400
an insane thing. I took my girlfriend to a Death

407
00:27:58.440 --> 00:28:02.640
Course show this week and like the singer for one

408
00:28:02.640 --> 00:28:06.440
of the bands spit fucking beer into the air and

409
00:28:06.519 --> 00:28:09.599
people were just like killing each other in the mosh pit,

410
00:28:09.680 --> 00:28:12.240
and she was like, what the fuck? And I was like,

411
00:28:12.680 --> 00:28:15.720
I was like, honestly, I don't know, Like I don't

412
00:28:15.759 --> 00:28:18.400
know why does it make us do that? But like,

413
00:28:18.519 --> 00:28:22.559
why do these just vibrations in the air.

414
00:28:23.359 --> 00:28:27.200
I think you're totally right, But I also think if

415
00:28:27.200 --> 00:28:31.559
you understand why a band is playing the music they do.

416
00:28:31.599 --> 00:28:33.960
And I'll explain what I mean by that. Just the

417
00:28:34.000 --> 00:28:37.039
other night, I was out with my brother at this

418
00:28:37.200 --> 00:28:40.119
venue that had some live music. We were at two

419
00:28:40.240 --> 00:28:42.960
separate venues like that were right near each other. The

420
00:28:43.039 --> 00:28:47.440
first venue had this like, you know, cover party band.

421
00:28:47.880 --> 00:28:50.640
You know, like they're the kind that gets everybody all

422
00:28:50.680 --> 00:28:56.519
having fun. You know, nobody's taking it too seriously except

423
00:28:56.559 --> 00:28:59.200
my brother, And he goes to me, he goes, do

424
00:28:59.240 --> 00:29:02.559
you like this band? I'm like, yeah, they all right? Now,

425
00:29:02.680 --> 00:29:05.640
did I think they were the best musicians? Not necessarily,

426
00:29:05.960 --> 00:29:09.920
you know. So then we go over to the next place,

427
00:29:10.759 --> 00:29:13.519
and this band was tight. Okay, Like if you were

428
00:29:13.519 --> 00:29:18.240
gonna analyze them from musicianship and just how they were,

429
00:29:18.880 --> 00:29:22.000
they were really good. And they were like a jam band.

430
00:29:22.039 --> 00:29:26.079
They were doing stuff like Floyd and things like that

431
00:29:26.440 --> 00:29:32.359
and just jamming shit. And he really loved them. But

432
00:29:32.519 --> 00:29:36.480
he loved them because of one reason, because he thought

433
00:29:36.559 --> 00:29:43.039
they were very good musicians. I saw something different. I

434
00:29:43.200 --> 00:29:47.400
liked both bands, but they were different vibes. The first band,

435
00:29:47.720 --> 00:29:51.000
maybe they weren't great musicians, but they were just allowing

436
00:29:51.039 --> 00:29:54.319
everybody to have a great time and have fun. And

437
00:29:54.359 --> 00:29:58.839
they were just a fun cover typical band that you

438
00:29:58.839 --> 00:30:03.160
would see at a bar or whatever, whereas the other band,

439
00:30:03.559 --> 00:30:07.480
they took themselves very seriously. The first band didn't take

440
00:30:07.519 --> 00:30:11.279
themselves seriously. The second one took themselves very seriously of

441
00:30:11.359 --> 00:30:14.519
their musicianship, and it showed they were really good. I

442
00:30:14.559 --> 00:30:17.839
don't think that I didn't dislike either one of them,

443
00:30:17.880 --> 00:30:19.319
they were just different vibes.

444
00:30:19.920 --> 00:30:24.240
Yeah, totally. There's also different functions, you know, different purposes

445
00:30:24.359 --> 00:30:30.160
in making music. For example, Like it took me a

446
00:30:30.200 --> 00:30:34.519
while to figure out that people really make music for

447
00:30:34.680 --> 00:30:37.519
very different reasons A lot of the time. They you know,

448
00:30:37.599 --> 00:30:41.680
I run a whole YouTube channel that's sort of aimed

449
00:30:41.839 --> 00:30:46.559
at helping people make music better, right for in various

450
00:30:46.559 --> 00:30:48.599
different ways, a lot of songwriting stuff and all that.

451
00:30:48.680 --> 00:30:51.960
But like what I realized is that, like I say,

452
00:30:52.000 --> 00:30:55.480
everything as if everyone is trying to be a very

453
00:30:55.599 --> 00:30:59.119
creative musician to write music and release it and all that.

454
00:30:59.319 --> 00:31:02.359
And I've realized that there's so many people that just

455
00:31:02.640 --> 00:31:05.799
really want to play an instrument for fun. And then

456
00:31:05.880 --> 00:31:09.039
also there are a lot of people who just love

457
00:31:09.119 --> 00:31:12.480
to play, even at a very high level, but they're

458
00:31:12.559 --> 00:31:17.079
not like particularly interested in the creative part of it.

459
00:31:17.640 --> 00:31:21.359
They just love actually playing it. So you know the

460
00:31:21.400 --> 00:31:24.839
kind of people that will like join a band where

461
00:31:25.240 --> 00:31:27.519
all their parts are like written for them, or maybe

462
00:31:27.559 --> 00:31:30.240
they just have to, you know, they just basically want

463
00:31:30.279 --> 00:31:35.559
to perform. And I think that that's it's this, you know,

464
00:31:35.599 --> 00:31:38.960
it takes all types because if everyone was like me,

465
00:31:40.279 --> 00:31:44.240
concerned primarily with the creative process of writing and composing

466
00:31:44.279 --> 00:31:46.759
and all this stuff, we'd have nobody to play the

467
00:31:46.920 --> 00:31:51.680
music there right right, you know, like or it would

468
00:31:51.720 --> 00:31:54.920
just be too many cooks. And you know, like as

469
00:31:54.960 --> 00:31:59.920
I was writing this album, like I can't play all

470
00:32:00.160 --> 00:32:03.119
of the instruments, you know, like I need a drummer,

471
00:32:04.680 --> 00:32:10.960
like uh, you know, and like I can like program

472
00:32:11.000 --> 00:32:12.720
a lot of things, but like that, you know, like

473
00:32:13.519 --> 00:32:15.160
I can't. I'm not going to go up there with

474
00:32:15.680 --> 00:32:19.160
all backing tracks and play like so anyway. But it's

475
00:32:19.240 --> 00:32:23.160
it's very important that we have all of these different

476
00:32:23.519 --> 00:32:27.960
ways of creating music and reasons for creating. And you know,

477
00:32:28.599 --> 00:32:32.680
music has such a it has so many different functions

478
00:32:32.720 --> 00:32:35.920
in our society, and like you know, like a cover

479
00:32:36.039 --> 00:32:39.759
band is like a like a great super fun night

480
00:32:40.000 --> 00:32:43.279
of of hanging out at a bar with your writings

481
00:32:43.319 --> 00:32:47.519
and like dancing with you know, uh, with people and

482
00:32:47.680 --> 00:32:51.160
like it. That's obvious. There's no there's not like a.

483
00:32:54.279 --> 00:32:55.279
There's no rare.

484
00:32:56.359 --> 00:32:58.880
Yeah, that's not really. They're not like super duper making art,

485
00:32:58.920 --> 00:33:01.359
which is whatever. It's a little it's more like entertainment,

486
00:33:02.759 --> 00:33:08.000
you know, and then taking yourself super seriously for I

487
00:33:08.039 --> 00:33:13.240
don't know, like just a more yeah, just for for

488
00:33:13.319 --> 00:33:16.960
something that's a little deeper like this this other band

489
00:33:17.000 --> 00:33:19.640
you described, maybe like something a little bit feeling more

490
00:33:20.559 --> 00:33:25.000
I don't know, uh, a little just a little bit

491
00:33:25.000 --> 00:33:31.799
more like important, I guess or whatever. And you know,

492
00:33:31.920 --> 00:33:34.680
different types of people are going to gravitate to different

493
00:33:34.799 --> 00:33:39.680
versions of it. And for me, when I create music,

494
00:33:40.720 --> 00:33:44.839
the reason that I even put it out into the

495
00:33:44.880 --> 00:33:48.559
world is to find what I call like souls, Okay,

496
00:33:48.720 --> 00:33:53.799
to create connections between myself and other people that exist.

497
00:33:53.920 --> 00:33:58.599
Because if I make something and somebody get picks up

498
00:33:58.640 --> 00:34:01.880
what I'm putting down, if they're really if they understand

499
00:34:02.960 --> 00:34:05.480
what I'm trying to say in the song and they relate,

500
00:34:06.480 --> 00:34:09.159
that makes me feel like I'm not alone in the universe.

501
00:34:09.840 --> 00:34:12.320
Yeah, you know, and like.

502
00:34:14.480 --> 00:34:22.079
You know, I've also played like Narls Barkley Crazy in

503
00:34:22.119 --> 00:34:27.639
a cover band, like and that's fucking fun. Like it's

504
00:34:27.679 --> 00:34:32.760
not it's obviously not the same, but I did get

505
00:34:32.760 --> 00:34:36.239
a great reaction and it was fun. And like it's

506
00:34:36.880 --> 00:34:39.480
you know, two different sides of the coin. For me,

507
00:34:40.159 --> 00:34:48.400
the creative, the generating new things that didn't exist before,

508
00:34:49.320 --> 00:34:51.280
is the thing that excites me the most. Building it

509
00:34:51.360 --> 00:34:54.519
the process of writing and composing, Like you know, I

510
00:34:54.559 --> 00:34:59.039
do all of this orchestration, like like a lot of

511
00:34:59.039 --> 00:35:02.519
these songs, especially our new one, Desolation Throne, has like

512
00:35:02.679 --> 00:35:08.280
all these layers of orchestration. There's not super up front,

513
00:35:08.280 --> 00:35:11.079
but like I love going in and like tweaking the

514
00:35:11.119 --> 00:35:14.760
second flute part to make sure that the articulation is correct,

515
00:35:14.800 --> 00:35:18.960
and like, you know, all these little things that are

516
00:35:19.039 --> 00:35:25.480
like not as fun as like banging out a four

517
00:35:25.559 --> 00:35:28.760
chord pop song in front of a bunch of drunk

518
00:35:28.800 --> 00:35:30.000
MILFs at a bar.

519
00:35:31.840 --> 00:35:35.840
But you know it's funny because I was just I

520
00:35:36.000 --> 00:35:41.559
just binge watched Nashville on Netflix, and to your point,

521
00:35:42.199 --> 00:35:46.199
there was one of the characters who was a songwriter

522
00:35:46.599 --> 00:35:49.679
but not a very good performer, and then there was

523
00:35:49.719 --> 00:35:55.000
another artist who was an amazing performer, not much of

524
00:35:55.199 --> 00:36:00.480
a songwriter, you know, and and the one that was

525
00:36:00.480 --> 00:36:05.679
the performer realized, okay, listen, I'm a performer. That's who

526
00:36:05.760 --> 00:36:08.559
I am. And he tried to teach the other one

527
00:36:08.880 --> 00:36:14.239
how to become more of a performer because to the performer,

528
00:36:14.360 --> 00:36:17.039
he was like, you know, you have to feel the music.

529
00:36:17.119 --> 00:36:19.559
You have to create the emotions so the people that

530
00:36:19.639 --> 00:36:24.320
are listening and watching will feel it too, you know,

531
00:36:24.800 --> 00:36:31.000
not just the words. Whereas the songwriter dude took it

532
00:36:31.239 --> 00:36:34.519
very seriously, like and so you could tell on stage

533
00:36:34.559 --> 00:36:39.800
he was very serious mode on stage. And what was

534
00:36:39.840 --> 00:36:42.360
cool about them performing together is I think you need

535
00:36:42.400 --> 00:36:44.039
both parts.

536
00:36:43.880 --> 00:36:49.960
Yeah, because you have to. You have to actuate the composition,

537
00:36:50.280 --> 00:36:57.239
right the it's you could write an absolute masterpiece, literally

538
00:36:57.320 --> 00:37:01.119
write it as notes and words and like compose the

539
00:37:01.159 --> 00:37:05.159
whole thing, every part, and if no one ever performs it,

540
00:37:05.519 --> 00:37:08.880
then what you have created is not music. It's just ink,

541
00:37:09.480 --> 00:37:19.280
right yeah, But you can't perform no composition, right, So,

542
00:37:19.719 --> 00:37:22.960
like you know, it's you're you're those are the kind

543
00:37:23.000 --> 00:37:25.679
of the two important halves of it. You're you're always

544
00:37:26.079 --> 00:37:29.880
I call it like selling the composition. It's not selling selling,

545
00:37:29.920 --> 00:37:32.920
but you know, like, yeah, you gotta sell it as

546
00:37:32.920 --> 00:37:38.119
a performer. And I think that, like I mean, I

547
00:37:38.199 --> 00:37:40.679
might be biased because, like I said, I'm much more

548
00:37:40.719 --> 00:37:46.679
on the composition side, but I think that if you

549
00:37:46.760 --> 00:37:51.840
write something that's like truly great in the composition, then

550
00:37:52.679 --> 00:37:56.840
the performance becomes somewhat less important.

551
00:37:57.280 --> 00:37:57.519
Yeah.

552
00:37:57.880 --> 00:38:01.480
For example, like if you write a real just a

553
00:38:01.519 --> 00:38:06.599
fucking white hot banger, somebody who's trashed singing it at

554
00:38:06.719 --> 00:38:10.280
karaoke isn't gonna ruin it. You know, people will still

555
00:38:10.320 --> 00:38:14.800
be like, fuck yeah, brother, fucking don't stop leaving whatever, like,

556
00:38:15.159 --> 00:38:19.760
still have a great time. But if you have some

557
00:38:19.920 --> 00:38:22.480
if you have a song that's kind of whatever, you can,

558
00:38:22.719 --> 00:38:25.800
like you can kind of get away with if you

559
00:38:25.840 --> 00:38:30.320
have a real just like a really amazing singer and performers,

560
00:38:30.519 --> 00:38:33.320
you if you really sell the performance and the production

561
00:38:33.440 --> 00:38:36.280
and the whole works, you can people can enjoy it.

562
00:38:37.599 --> 00:38:40.639
But when you know, when you break it down to it,

563
00:38:40.800 --> 00:38:44.000
like to a shitty karaoke performance or like the h

564
00:38:44.280 --> 00:38:46.840
the campfire, you know, around the campfire, stram a couple

565
00:38:46.920 --> 00:38:49.280
chords and singing along, if it doesn't hold up there,

566
00:38:49.360 --> 00:38:52.119
then it's you know, then it's not a great song.

567
00:38:52.239 --> 00:38:57.800
It's just a it's like it's just a polished turd.

568
00:38:58.760 --> 00:39:03.199
But if you can have both, you're it's you're unstoppable, right,

569
00:39:03.800 --> 00:39:06.239
write a great song, perform the ship out of it.

570
00:39:06.440 --> 00:39:10.920
If like for me, I'm writing things that I believe

571
00:39:10.960 --> 00:39:14.800
in so strongly, it's I'm writing songs about things that

572
00:39:14.840 --> 00:39:19.400
I care about that like there are it's basically autobiographical

573
00:39:19.480 --> 00:39:23.880
in a roundabout way, like I've I believe in the

574
00:39:24.199 --> 00:39:27.320
that they're really great, and so when I go to

575
00:39:27.360 --> 00:39:32.840
perform them, which hopefully i'll get to do soon, it

576
00:39:32.880 --> 00:39:35.960
will be easy for me to to sell it because

577
00:39:37.079 --> 00:39:44.360
I believe in the whole package. And I'm not just like,

578
00:39:45.840 --> 00:39:49.320
I'm not just like what is it? Oh baby, oh baby,

579
00:39:49.360 --> 00:39:53.480
oh baby? Like I don't know. I think of people

580
00:39:53.800 --> 00:39:59.800
like who sing for commercial jingles like with with such saw,

581
00:40:00.239 --> 00:40:05.760
like What's Good in the Zone AutoZone, like that guy

582
00:40:05.800 --> 00:40:10.400
felt like he was really feeling AutoZone, Like right, I guess,

583
00:40:10.599 --> 00:40:13.320
I guess if you're paying me enough, I could fake

584
00:40:13.360 --> 00:40:14.000
it pretty good.

585
00:40:15.079 --> 00:40:18.559
But see, that's what I would be good at. That's

586
00:40:18.599 --> 00:40:23.119
what I would be good at. But now the songwriting process.

587
00:40:23.320 --> 00:40:29.079
I wrote one song okay that actually was recorded and

588
00:40:29.079 --> 00:40:33.840
and it was a collaboration with my head engineer at

589
00:40:33.880 --> 00:40:39.480
the radio station and his duo partner because they were

590
00:40:39.679 --> 00:40:46.559
a country rock duo, and I came to him with

591
00:40:46.719 --> 00:40:50.599
this song. Now, I'm a radio personality, i'm a speaker,

592
00:40:50.639 --> 00:40:53.519
I'm a published author. So what I wrote was not

593
00:40:53.639 --> 00:40:57.440
a song. It was a book, okay, Like I wrote

594
00:40:57.480 --> 00:41:01.119
it in book style, okay, and this to him and

595
00:41:01.119 --> 00:41:04.719
he's like, what the fuck is this? And he's like,

596
00:41:05.360 --> 00:41:07.880
this is a book, man, and he goes, we need

597
00:41:07.880 --> 00:41:10.440
to trim this down. And then he starts going is

598
00:41:10.480 --> 00:41:14.480
this important and everything? As you know, like it's so

599
00:41:14.679 --> 00:41:18.679
hard to cut up your own shit. So I was like, yes,

600
00:41:18.840 --> 00:41:21.519
that's important. Like he's trying to cut stuff out of

601
00:41:21.559 --> 00:41:23.599
it to make it into a song and I'm like, no,

602
00:41:23.800 --> 00:41:26.280
that has to be in there. But anyway, the final

603
00:41:26.440 --> 00:41:30.679
product was, you know, a minuscule fraction of what I

604
00:41:30.800 --> 00:41:34.760
gave him, but it was a song and it was

605
00:41:34.840 --> 00:41:37.239
a great song. Oh good. I didn't have to fix

606
00:41:37.280 --> 00:41:39.760
the blind. I was going to say before, I was

607
00:41:39.760 --> 00:41:41.920
gonna let you say something while I fix the blind,

608
00:41:41.920 --> 00:41:44.679
because I didn't realize that I had to blind open

609
00:41:44.760 --> 00:41:47.880
with the sun coming in and I know, and did

610
00:41:47.880 --> 00:41:49.760
you notice I was trying to move away from it,

611
00:41:49.800 --> 00:41:51.320
and I didn't want to get out of the screen.

612
00:41:51.840 --> 00:41:54.639
But now the cloud is hiding it, so I have

613
00:41:54.719 --> 00:41:57.480
to close the blind now, which I should have done beforehand,

614
00:41:57.519 --> 00:42:00.360
but I never had that problem, so I was like fuck.

615
00:42:00.639 --> 00:42:02.360
In the middle of the interview.

616
00:42:02.320 --> 00:42:05.039
I tell you that I wish I didn't notice that,

617
00:42:05.440 --> 00:42:08.119
But as you can see, one of my many hobbies

618
00:42:08.480 --> 00:42:12.880
is lighting. Like a new video, I care about lighting,

619
00:42:12.960 --> 00:42:16.719
and I saw the beams of light across you. I

620
00:42:17.159 --> 00:42:20.079
wasn't judging you for it, but I noticed, Oh.

621
00:42:20.000 --> 00:42:22.239
Yeah, I knew you know this. I was trying to

622
00:42:22.280 --> 00:42:24.039
figure out a way how could I get out of

623
00:42:24.039 --> 00:42:27.480
this scenario, which without actually jumping out of the screen

624
00:42:27.599 --> 00:42:31.119
to you know, and it's funny. So now I feel

625
00:42:31.159 --> 00:42:34.159
much better because I am a perfectionist too. I'm like,

626
00:42:34.320 --> 00:42:38.960
fuck me this sun, you know. But uh yeah, I mean,

627
00:42:39.119 --> 00:42:43.440
so what ended up happening is there's a difference between

628
00:42:43.599 --> 00:42:48.800
writing something and writing a song and understanding how composition is.

629
00:42:49.280 --> 00:42:52.159
And he understood that. I didn't understand it. I mean,

630
00:42:52.199 --> 00:42:54.760
I did understand it, but not to a point that

631
00:42:54.840 --> 00:42:57.840
I was willing to eliminate anything that I wrote.

632
00:42:58.360 --> 00:42:59.679
You know, it's a.

633
00:42:59.639 --> 00:43:00.039
Lot of.

634
00:43:03.159 --> 00:43:12.000
Yeah. I think of composition as being pretty universal across

635
00:43:12.599 --> 00:43:17.400
different mediums in a lot of ways, like storytelling good,

636
00:43:17.440 --> 00:43:22.920
storytelling good, you know, solid composition. There's there are some

637
00:43:23.079 --> 00:43:27.000
points that are very very similar and universal, but there's

638
00:43:27.559 --> 00:43:33.599
every medium has its own little uh quirks and limitations

639
00:43:33.639 --> 00:43:35.960
and everything, you know, Like you can't put all of

640
00:43:36.320 --> 00:43:40.280
Lord of the Lord of the Rings right into one song.

641
00:43:40.719 --> 00:43:44.599
That's the point. It's there's different types of storytelling. There's

642
00:43:44.599 --> 00:43:49.559
a storytelling that you do in Desolation Throne, uh, you know,

643
00:43:49.840 --> 00:43:53.159
that makes it a song. Then there's storytelling me as

644
00:43:53.159 --> 00:43:57.519
a speaker, when you know storytelling as a public speaker,

645
00:43:57.599 --> 00:44:01.719
you drag it out. Storytelling it's a radio personality. You

646
00:44:01.800 --> 00:44:04.039
drag it out. Like I can take a two minute

647
00:44:04.079 --> 00:44:06.760
story and turn it into a forty minute story and

648
00:44:06.800 --> 00:44:09.840
it be really engaging. But if it was a forty

649
00:44:09.880 --> 00:44:12.039
minute song, it wouldn't be engaging at all.

650
00:44:14.599 --> 00:44:20.320
Yeah, But you can have a forty minute album yes,

651
00:44:20.559 --> 00:44:27.280
with chapters. Yeah, And it's you know, but it's it

652
00:44:27.280 --> 00:44:31.639
comes down to how big of a story do you

653
00:44:31.679 --> 00:44:36.239
want to tell? And what is the actual point. I

654
00:44:36.360 --> 00:44:41.199
used to take a much more kitchen sink approach. Maybe,

655
00:44:41.400 --> 00:44:47.960
I mean probably because the format of progressive music always

656
00:44:47.960 --> 00:44:52.719
really appeal appealed to me, and they did a lot

657
00:44:52.760 --> 00:44:57.559
of different things within the same composition. But what I

658
00:44:57.679 --> 00:45:01.079
figured out was that it's it was all alas when

659
00:45:01.079 --> 00:45:05.039
they were doing it really well. There's always a lot

660
00:45:05.079 --> 00:45:09.880
of variations on the same motif, the same musical ideas,

661
00:45:09.960 --> 00:45:15.280
and there was always this main quest throughout it. They

662
00:45:15.280 --> 00:45:17.840
took a lot more side quests than the average, like

663
00:45:17.920 --> 00:45:21.400
you know, pop music or whatever, but there was always

664
00:45:21.440 --> 00:45:24.039
this main quest that they're always getting back to. And

665
00:45:25.480 --> 00:45:28.800
after doing like a lot of things, a lot, you know,

666
00:45:28.880 --> 00:45:31.679
a lot of different types of things, approaching things many

667
00:45:31.719 --> 00:45:38.519
many different ways, and and really taking the long way around,

668
00:45:39.079 --> 00:45:44.079
I came to the conclusion that like, life is very short,

669
00:45:44.119 --> 00:45:47.360
and you really only get to say, like you might

670
00:45:47.400 --> 00:45:51.599
only be remembered for saying one really important thing, you know,

671
00:45:52.119 --> 00:45:59.440
having one core idea, and you even if you're have

672
00:45:59.519 --> 00:46:02.519
a lot of life what I would call musical filigree, right,

673
00:46:02.559 --> 00:46:05.400
a lot of you know, a lot of sort of

674
00:46:05.440 --> 00:46:08.000
decoration or a lot of side quests or whatever. If

675
00:46:08.000 --> 00:46:11.639
your music is very complex, it's still all there to

676
00:46:11.760 --> 00:46:16.000
serve some kind of very specific core idea, and like

677
00:46:16.079 --> 00:46:21.400
the journey of sisiphis in this story is that thread,

678
00:46:21.559 --> 00:46:27.639
and it's it's all about basically these two characters. But

679
00:46:27.800 --> 00:46:36.440
the growth and character developments of this really terrible person

680
00:46:36.639 --> 00:46:39.800
starts out as a like a you know, a truly

681
00:46:40.440 --> 00:46:47.639
awful tyrant and his journey of self forgiveness, and this

682
00:46:47.800 --> 00:46:52.119
idea of self forgiveness is the is the core idea,

683
00:46:52.400 --> 00:47:00.280
and Sisyphis is there to sort of demonstrate that idea.

684
00:47:00.480 --> 00:47:06.639
And like, it's a fifty minute album with how many

685
00:47:06.719 --> 00:47:13.800
fourteen to fifteen songs on it, and each song is

686
00:47:13.960 --> 00:47:18.199
just another step in that journey. And if you listen

687
00:47:18.280 --> 00:47:21.320
to the whole thing and you don't get that out

688
00:47:21.360 --> 00:47:24.280
of it, it's totally fine, because each of the individual

689
00:47:24.400 --> 00:47:31.039
songs I think stands on their own. But I tried

690
00:47:31.159 --> 00:47:37.000
my absolute hardest to really distill that idea and to

691
00:47:37.480 --> 00:47:43.760
always be pointing towards that. And it's not Lord of

692
00:47:43.800 --> 00:47:49.880
the Rings. It's like, I'm not going into detail about

693
00:47:50.000 --> 00:47:53.360
the taste of the ale at the at the it

694
00:47:53.440 --> 00:47:55.800
is one hundred and eleven toy hundred and fifty what

695
00:47:55.920 --> 00:47:59.079
is eleventy first birthday? You know, like and the color

696
00:47:59.079 --> 00:48:02.199
of every leaf on every tree of the whole journey. Uh,

697
00:48:03.320 --> 00:48:07.119
those are cool details if you're writing a book, but yeah,

698
00:48:07.119 --> 00:48:09.639
in a sase, like you've got to really get to

699
00:48:09.679 --> 00:48:12.880
the point, unlike what I just did with that very

700
00:48:12.920 --> 00:48:14.119
long sentence.

701
00:48:14.599 --> 00:48:19.199
And it's even more so nowadays because like it's kind

702
00:48:19.199 --> 00:48:23.400
of ridiculous to me. I took, you know, songwriting classes

703
00:48:23.440 --> 00:48:29.639
in college, and songwriting then compared to songwriting now is

704
00:48:29.760 --> 00:48:33.159
totally different in certain respects because of the attention span

705
00:48:33.239 --> 00:48:37.199
of people nowadays. And like I've talked to some songwriters

706
00:48:37.199 --> 00:48:40.519
and they're like, yeah, nowadays we have to cut out

707
00:48:40.559 --> 00:48:44.000
an intro, cut out a verse, cut out a bridge,

708
00:48:44.719 --> 00:48:48.320
cut out solo, or else people won't listen, you know.

709
00:48:48.559 --> 00:48:51.599
And it's really sad because I love how I use

710
00:48:51.639 --> 00:48:54.440
the word journey, because that's the word I always use.

711
00:48:54.559 --> 00:48:58.639
Like every album I ever had, it was like a journey.

712
00:48:58.679 --> 00:49:01.559
You put your headphones on, you listen to the whole

713
00:49:01.599 --> 00:49:06.920
album cover to cover. Here comes the Sunlight again, and

714
00:49:06.920 --> 00:49:12.239
and and then and then uh, you know, basically you

715
00:49:12.239 --> 00:49:15.480
would read the lyrics, look at the artwork, which, by

716
00:49:15.519 --> 00:49:18.440
the way, that this is a perfect chance for me

717
00:49:18.519 --> 00:49:21.320
to fix that. Look at this artwork. Right here is

718
00:49:21.440 --> 00:49:24.280
badass of maybe you could tell him about this album

719
00:49:24.360 --> 00:49:26.239
and the person that did the artwork.

720
00:49:26.280 --> 00:49:28.960
I will talk about that while they look at it

721
00:49:29.039 --> 00:49:34.199
while and you fix the blinds. So Niklaus Sunden is

722
00:49:34.280 --> 00:49:38.280
the artist Swedish dude. You will probably know him best

723
00:49:38.360 --> 00:49:45.679
as founding longtime guitarist for the band Dark Tranquility, a

724
00:49:45.760 --> 00:49:48.880
band that I love dearly. He's no longer in the

725
00:49:48.920 --> 00:49:52.800
band as of I think twenty twenty three, but he

726
00:49:52.920 --> 00:49:57.599
created that many, many, many of their album covers. I'm

727
00:49:57.639 --> 00:49:59.960
not sure if it's all of them, but the one

728
00:50:00.119 --> 00:50:05.039
that he did that really hit me like a ton

729
00:50:05.079 --> 00:50:12.559
of bricks, great job was for their for their album

730
00:50:12.599 --> 00:50:15.360
Oh no No, Now I've drawn a blank on what

731
00:50:15.400 --> 00:50:19.599
the hell it was called. Uh. I think it was

732
00:50:20.199 --> 00:50:21.960
not the most recent one, but the one before it.

733
00:50:26.000 --> 00:50:34.320
I should look it up in the moment and anyway,

734
00:50:34.400 --> 00:50:39.800
it was like, it just hit me so hard, and

735
00:50:39.880 --> 00:50:44.400
I was like, if it hadn't already been it's called moment,

736
00:50:44.880 --> 00:50:47.960
if it hadn't already been a cover, I would have

737
00:50:48.000 --> 00:50:51.440
straight up bought it off of him for this. But

738
00:50:53.239 --> 00:50:57.039
what that gave me was the opportunity to commission him

739
00:50:57.079 --> 00:51:01.360
to make something unique and something that was really exactly

740
00:51:01.400 --> 00:51:06.320
what it needed. And so you know, I don't know

741
00:51:06.360 --> 00:51:09.119
if you know that you can just do this, people

742
00:51:09.159 --> 00:51:11.880
are like, well, how do you get someone to do

743
00:51:12.360 --> 00:51:16.800
like you find somebody who's done the thing that's your

744
00:51:16.920 --> 00:51:20.440
like your favorite, and then you just pay them to

745
00:51:20.440 --> 00:51:23.800
to to make something for you like uh now, obviously

746
00:51:23.880 --> 00:51:28.800
like they have doneand but you gotta yeah, yeah, yeah,

747
00:51:28.800 --> 00:51:32.639
they got they they gotta pick up what you're putting down. Luckily,

748
00:51:32.679 --> 00:51:36.360
he was extremely easy to work with, really great. He

749
00:51:36.679 --> 00:51:40.320
just obviously delivered the goods now in this case, like

750
00:51:40.400 --> 00:51:46.679
it was straight up like a commission. Like I gave

751
00:51:46.800 --> 00:51:51.159
him the idea, the pretty specific idea of what I wanted.

752
00:51:51.760 --> 00:51:55.920
But I'm not in this kind of artist. I don't

753
00:51:55.960 --> 00:51:59.000
do like a like visual art like this at all.

754
00:52:00.800 --> 00:52:06.760
So I have a very broad general idea of what

755
00:52:06.840 --> 00:52:12.159
I want and getting a real artist to interpret what

756
00:52:12.239 --> 00:52:16.639
I'm saying and deliver it in such with all of

757
00:52:16.639 --> 00:52:18.800
this stuff that there's no way in a million years

758
00:52:18.800 --> 00:52:21.760
I could have possibly thought of, you know, the picture

759
00:52:21.880 --> 00:52:26.920
of like the the actual backside of this dude. I

760
00:52:26.960 --> 00:52:35.559
sent him a photograph of myself in this pose and

761
00:52:35.559 --> 00:52:41.320
and it's basically exactly that, but art, you know. But

762
00:52:41.400 --> 00:52:43.159
the rest of it is just things that I like

763
00:52:43.400 --> 00:52:46.320
kind of described to him as if it was a dream,

764
00:52:46.719 --> 00:52:50.400
and he just made this beautiful thing with the colors

765
00:52:50.400 --> 00:52:55.960
that pop in such a such a great way with

766
00:52:56.039 --> 00:52:57.079
the contrast like that.

767
00:52:57.239 --> 00:52:59.159
The colors are totally cool.

768
00:52:59.519 --> 00:53:05.079
Yeah, wildly good. And so what it depicts is Sissyphis

769
00:53:06.159 --> 00:53:10.000
on the mountain. The boulder is rolling back down because

770
00:53:10.039 --> 00:53:15.119
he's abandoned it. He is tearing apart the fabric of

771
00:53:15.199 --> 00:53:19.119
reality so that he can break out of his you know,

772
00:53:19.239 --> 00:53:23.960
his supposedly eternal torment of pushing this boulder up the hill.

773
00:53:24.400 --> 00:53:27.320
You can see the vines and shackles trying to hold

774
00:53:27.360 --> 00:53:30.440
him back, the snakes coming after him, and then we

775
00:53:30.519 --> 00:53:36.800
see the world Earth, America, New York City. Actually that

776
00:53:37.000 --> 00:53:41.599
was just to like really show that he's you know,

777
00:53:41.679 --> 00:53:47.239
coming to some modern version of the world, you know,

778
00:53:47.280 --> 00:53:49.679
and that we like in our last single that we

779
00:53:49.800 --> 00:53:53.880
released before this one was Gunslingers of the New American Desert,

780
00:53:55.719 --> 00:53:58.639
so like it's he's in he is in the United States.

781
00:53:59.360 --> 00:54:02.719
But you know, all of all of this stuff is

782
00:54:03.559 --> 00:54:06.119
things that I you know, had these conversations with him

783
00:54:06.159 --> 00:54:08.440
about what the album was about, what it was, what

784
00:54:08.480 --> 00:54:11.079
I was really trying to depict, and like it's a

785
00:54:11.320 --> 00:54:15.559
you know, maybe like a little on the nose in

786
00:54:15.599 --> 00:54:22.840
a sense, but I think I just really wanted to

787
00:54:22.920 --> 00:54:28.079
tell enough of the story in one static frame that

788
00:54:28.159 --> 00:54:32.559
people would be able, would be intrigued. And I and

789
00:54:32.639 --> 00:54:38.280
I think also, you know, like we said, composition, it's

790
00:54:38.320 --> 00:54:42.239
it's different across all mediums, but you're you still want

791
00:54:42.320 --> 00:54:49.079
storytelling and this single frame tells such a story if

792
00:54:49.119 --> 00:54:53.239
you know what to look for. And you know, I

793
00:54:54.199 --> 00:54:59.519
I don't yet have it as a large scale piece

794
00:54:59.559 --> 00:55:01.840
of art to on my wall, but I'm getting I'm

795
00:55:01.880 --> 00:55:03.400
getting getting there well.

796
00:55:03.639 --> 00:55:07.079
And to your point, it is it is so crucial

797
00:55:07.199 --> 00:55:12.599
to find an artist that can understand what you're explaining,

798
00:55:12.639 --> 00:55:15.599
because like I had the same scenario. I have a

799
00:55:15.599 --> 00:55:19.079
published book. I had the idea of what I wanted

800
00:55:19.079 --> 00:55:21.719
to cover to look like. I gave it to the

801
00:55:21.840 --> 00:55:25.840
artists and I was absolutely in shock and what I

802
00:55:25.880 --> 00:55:29.079
got back because I don't even think I gave too

803
00:55:29.159 --> 00:55:33.079
much specifics. I did what you did, like, gave my

804
00:55:33.079 --> 00:55:36.519
my vision, but my vision could be a different language

805
00:55:36.559 --> 00:55:41.280
to whatever. Yeah, that person was hearing and came back

806
00:55:41.320 --> 00:55:44.719
and there wasn't even an edit. I was like, that's

807
00:55:44.800 --> 00:55:48.840
exactly what I was thinking. I'm like, that's exactly what

808
00:55:48.920 --> 00:55:51.000
I was thinking. That it's perfect, and that became the

809
00:55:51.039 --> 00:55:55.360
album and the book cover. You know. So so yes,

810
00:55:55.679 --> 00:55:59.320
like you need to. I think it's true in all

811
00:55:59.519 --> 00:56:03.000
art too. You need the people that specialize in the

812
00:56:03.079 --> 00:56:08.840
different areas. You know, like, obviously lighting's not my specialty.

813
00:56:09.280 --> 00:56:12.480
But here, okay, you're ready for this to what I noticed?

814
00:56:13.320 --> 00:56:16.559
Your lighting in your background matches your album cover.

815
00:56:17.639 --> 00:56:18.400
Oh that's true.

816
00:56:19.639 --> 00:56:23.599
Did you notice that I did not? Yeah, right, while

817
00:56:23.639 --> 00:56:26.119
you were talking, I was looking. I'm like, I'm looking

818
00:56:26.199 --> 00:56:29.280
at the different colors and I'm like, they all match

819
00:56:29.400 --> 00:56:30.400
in the album cover.

820
00:56:30.960 --> 00:56:33.159
It's you know, it's a lot of like color theory,

821
00:56:33.239 --> 00:56:37.639
contrasting and uh and stuff like that that I've sort

822
00:56:37.639 --> 00:56:41.239
of like been forced to learn about so that I

823
00:56:41.239 --> 00:56:47.800
can make my videos and streams look better. Uh. But like, yeah,

824
00:56:47.920 --> 00:56:53.599
you know, so that outs the album cover is something

825
00:56:53.639 --> 00:56:57.760
that of course we outsourced. Nobody in the band paints draws,

826
00:56:57.840 --> 00:57:05.000
like whatever, Right, But I think that sort of potential

827
00:57:05.079 --> 00:57:09.800
disconnect between yourself and the person that you're commissioning any

828
00:57:09.920 --> 00:57:14.199
given piece of art or thing or whatever. A craft's

829
00:57:14.280 --> 00:57:21.440
person has led me to learn how to do so

830
00:57:21.679 --> 00:57:27.079
many things because a lot of the time I've asked

831
00:57:27.119 --> 00:57:33.239
for something and gotten just not the right not not

832
00:57:33.360 --> 00:57:36.840
something usable or whatever, or just something that doesn't match. Like,

833
00:57:36.880 --> 00:57:41.079
that's part of why I started learning how to sing,

834
00:57:41.599 --> 00:57:46.599
because I didn't want to have to describe to someone

835
00:57:46.639 --> 00:57:52.039
else what I wanted. Literally, just like I was like, no, now,

836
00:57:52.119 --> 00:57:54.840
I'm just going to sing the songs that I write

837
00:57:55.320 --> 00:57:57.199
so that I can sing them how I think they

838
00:57:57.239 --> 00:57:59.480
need to be sung. It's not about this, that's not

839
00:57:59.519 --> 00:58:01.320
even about whether or not somebody else was going to

840
00:58:01.360 --> 00:58:04.000
sing them well.

841
00:58:06.119 --> 00:58:10.880
And you understand the meaning behind the words, and if

842
00:58:10.880 --> 00:58:14.199
it's not your own words, sometimes it's not as easy

843
00:58:14.239 --> 00:58:19.239
to express those words the way the writer means them.

844
00:58:19.519 --> 00:58:25.639
Yeah, there's definitely that too, And that's just that kind

845
00:58:25.639 --> 00:58:30.159
of goes for every instrument. But the voice is the

846
00:58:30.199 --> 00:58:36.000
one that everyone will like pick up on those little

847
00:58:36.039 --> 00:58:41.639
subtleties and stuff, right Like if you most people aren't

848
00:58:41.679 --> 00:58:44.880
going to be like, oh the guitar is a little

849
00:58:45.000 --> 00:58:48.239
flat on this. No here, like I wasn't really feeling

850
00:58:48.239 --> 00:58:51.119
that particular expression of it. But they'll be able to

851
00:58:51.239 --> 00:58:55.840
detect honesty in a sung vocal performance or not like

852
00:58:55.840 --> 00:58:59.760
that you can tell if you mean it, or or

853
00:58:59.800 --> 00:59:05.000
even some kind of real specific expression of feeling that

854
00:59:05.079 --> 00:59:11.239
you're trying to get across. They'll they'll get those those things.

855
00:59:11.280 --> 00:59:13.400
So it's it's you know, it's just the four it's

856
00:59:13.400 --> 00:59:16.519
just the tip of the iceberg kind of, but it's

857
00:59:16.519 --> 00:59:20.639
the part that the largest number of people will be

858
00:59:22.239 --> 00:59:25.599
uh understanding or not. Like we have a song on

859
00:59:26.159 --> 00:59:30.840
uh oh on the our old album Embraced the Horror.

860
00:59:31.360 --> 00:59:38.880
There's a part where like uh oh, I say gasping

861
00:59:39.000 --> 00:59:43.920
out its final breath in this one spot because I

862
00:59:43.920 --> 00:59:46.119
you know, I did harsh vocals on the last two

863
00:59:47.559 --> 00:59:51.280
and in that part, I like sound like I'm running

864
00:59:51.320 --> 00:59:54.400
out of breath. And a friend of mine, who's, you know,

865
00:59:54.440 --> 00:59:59.000
not really a musician, was like, like that feels so real,

866
00:59:59.840 --> 01:00:04.239
and you know, it's like wh fuck, and it's it's key.

867
01:00:04.559 --> 01:00:09.320
That's key right there. And you know, I think too, Like,

868
01:00:10.079 --> 01:00:13.039
so I have a question for you, would you say,

869
01:00:13.239 --> 01:00:16.800
because I think everybody is I think like I think

870
01:00:16.840 --> 01:00:21.320
the whole narrative of self forgiveness, transformation, rebirth applies to

871
01:00:21.360 --> 01:00:26.519
everybody in their life and everybody that you know. It's

872
01:00:26.599 --> 01:00:33.519
breathing basically, So do you feel like when you're singing

873
01:00:33.599 --> 01:00:39.840
these songs, you're singing about you? I wrote, and that's key.

874
01:00:39.920 --> 01:00:48.800
It's it is in a kind of roundabout way, very autobiographical.

875
01:00:49.159 --> 01:00:54.159
And also it became kind of like life imitating art.

876
01:00:54.239 --> 01:00:57.039
Like I started writing. When I really figured out what

877
01:00:57.239 --> 01:01:05.480
the story was about, it was because I felt like

878
01:01:05.559 --> 01:01:09.159
I was so bogged down in my own like this,

879
01:01:12.400 --> 01:01:19.400
I had created so much obligation for myself to that

880
01:01:19.480 --> 01:01:24.199
I couldn't move forward, Like I was so frustrated at

881
01:01:24.199 --> 01:01:29.840
myself for not achieving certain things that I couldn't even

882
01:01:29.880 --> 01:01:33.679
set new goals and move forward at all in my life.

883
01:01:33.760 --> 01:01:38.480
And I had this expectation of myself that was so unrealistic,

884
01:01:39.159 --> 01:01:42.159
and I really was not being kind to myself, not

885
01:01:42.320 --> 01:01:46.360
being forgiving because of all the mistakes and that I'd

886
01:01:46.360 --> 01:01:49.519
made and dumb things. And it's really the sunk cost

887
01:01:49.599 --> 01:01:51.639
fallacy in a lot of ways. Now I am not

888
01:01:52.880 --> 01:01:57.320
a tyrannical king who's killed thousands of people and like oppressed,

889
01:01:57.480 --> 01:02:01.239
you know, like obviously in that sense, I not like Sisphist,

890
01:02:01.880 --> 01:02:07.559
but also that example exists just to be like in

891
01:02:07.599 --> 01:02:11.760
a sense, to sort of polarize it for you, because

892
01:02:11.760 --> 01:02:16.320
you go like, well, are you a tyrannical king who's

893
01:02:16.440 --> 01:02:20.000
killed and oppressed thousands of people and tortured people, Like, well,

894
01:02:20.000 --> 01:02:22.079
maybe you should be a little nicer to yourself than

895
01:02:22.400 --> 01:02:25.599
like it's you know, you made a mistake, you did

896
01:02:25.599 --> 01:02:28.960
something wrong or bad. You don't have to go fucking

897
01:02:29.039 --> 01:02:35.199
Walter White right like you. So for me, it was

898
01:02:35.320 --> 01:02:42.519
working through this philosophical and ethical idea that I think

899
01:02:43.239 --> 01:02:47.840
a lot of people don't consciously or address, which is

900
01:02:47.920 --> 01:02:51.760
like this idea of like am I a good person?

901
01:02:51.880 --> 01:02:56.840
Am I a bad person? And that dichotomy fucks people up,

902
01:02:57.320 --> 01:02:59.480
And I think that's a terrible way to look at

903
01:02:59.519 --> 01:03:04.320
everything because people go like, Okay, well I did some

904
01:03:04.440 --> 01:03:07.119
things that are bad or wrong. I guess I'm a

905
01:03:07.159 --> 01:03:11.960
bad person, and then they just go Walter White right

906
01:03:12.039 --> 01:03:14.159
like you. Just you just keep you're just like all right,

907
01:03:14.199 --> 01:03:16.559
well I guess that's who I am. But that's that's

908
01:03:16.599 --> 01:03:18.960
not a real thing. There's no no one's good or bad.

909
01:03:19.000 --> 01:03:25.039
You you just you just are constantly faced with choices,

910
01:03:25.719 --> 01:03:30.840
and you can either you know, there's not a lot

911
01:03:30.840 --> 01:03:33.760
of very hard objective good and bad, and most of

912
01:03:33.800 --> 01:03:36.440
the choices that we make on a daily basis, you know,

913
01:03:38.280 --> 01:03:42.599
and if you make a bad choice, you do something wrong,

914
01:03:43.320 --> 01:03:49.199
it might really cause people pain or extreme joy or whatever.

915
01:03:49.280 --> 01:03:52.639
But if you do something wrong or bad, like, the

916
01:03:52.679 --> 01:03:57.679
only thing that you can do is forgive yourself and

917
01:03:57.719 --> 01:04:06.119
move on and other because otherwise the choice that usually

918
01:04:06.119 --> 01:04:10.119
winds up getting made is that you continue to make

919
01:04:10.159 --> 01:04:14.800
these bad choices, no doubt. And like you might think,

920
01:04:14.840 --> 01:04:20.719
well what about justice? What about like should you feel

921
01:04:20.760 --> 01:04:23.119
bad about things that you did badly? Well, yeah, of

922
01:04:23.159 --> 01:04:29.079
course you should, But that guilt can have the opposite effect.

923
01:04:29.199 --> 01:04:32.400
It can backfire so hard, and it often does. And

924
01:04:32.480 --> 01:04:37.960
people like these tyrannical Sissiphis type characters, I think, wind

925
01:04:38.039 --> 01:04:45.400
up there because of a really bad philosophical idea, no doubt.

926
01:04:45.440 --> 01:04:49.039
And there's something that you said, a quote of yours

927
01:04:49.039 --> 01:04:54.920
that I saw that I really loved because it just

928
01:04:55.360 --> 01:04:57.719
it says it all, and it's something I say all

929
01:04:57.760 --> 01:05:01.360
the time as a motivational type, self help type person.

930
01:05:03.000 --> 01:05:06.719
And you said, it's about releasing ourselves from guilt and

931
01:05:06.760 --> 01:05:10.159
regret and regret, because until you do, you can't do

932
01:05:10.199 --> 01:05:12.880
any good in the world for yourself or anyone else.

933
01:05:13.480 --> 01:05:15.800
And that is such an important statement.

934
01:05:16.800 --> 01:05:19.679
Thank you. I like being quoted as when I say

935
01:05:19.679 --> 01:05:29.519
pithy things. And you know that's not like a the

936
01:05:29.639 --> 01:05:31.639
kind of thing you expect to get out of a

937
01:05:31.679 --> 01:05:36.159
metal album. I know, right, But you know I have

938
01:05:36.239 --> 01:05:39.559
to want it to want metal to be like an escape,

939
01:05:40.760 --> 01:05:43.800
and there are a lot of times that I do too.

940
01:05:44.400 --> 01:05:46.440
This one's a lot more like therapy.

941
01:05:47.159 --> 01:05:51.760
I think all music is therapy number one. Number two. Listen.

942
01:05:52.960 --> 01:05:55.079
You know I've had people say to me before, how

943
01:05:55.079 --> 01:05:58.000
can you be a metal head when you're a motivational speaker?

944
01:05:58.079 --> 01:06:01.519
That makes no sense? And I called bullshit. It makes

945
01:06:01.519 --> 01:06:05.079
all the sense in the world. I actually driving to

946
01:06:05.199 --> 01:06:10.000
a seminar that I'm gonna give I will listen to

947
01:06:10.760 --> 01:06:13.960
like stuff like Slayer to get me all motivated and

948
01:06:14.039 --> 01:06:17.639
pumped up. You know. Now, somebody that says that to me,

949
01:06:17.760 --> 01:06:21.400
they're gonna be like if I tell them that, They're like, well,

950
01:06:21.760 --> 01:06:24.079
that doesn't make any sense at all. But it does

951
01:06:24.199 --> 01:06:26.880
make sense because going back to the beginning of the interview,

952
01:06:26.920 --> 01:06:31.039
everything full circle is you know, it's a vibe, it's

953
01:06:31.079 --> 01:06:35.920
a feeling, it's energy, it's not necessarily about the words.

954
01:06:36.039 --> 01:06:38.719
It is about the meaning you put to those words.

955
01:06:38.800 --> 01:06:42.119
It's not about necessarily the music, it's the meaning you

956
01:06:42.199 --> 01:06:43.199
put to that music.

957
01:06:44.280 --> 01:06:49.039
I think people who think like that would criticize you

958
01:06:49.119 --> 01:06:54.760
for something like that just really don't catch the vibe

959
01:06:54.920 --> 01:06:57.559
of not of what metal is about. And like, no,

960
01:06:57.960 --> 01:07:01.320
I mean honestly, like those are the kinds of things

961
01:07:02.320 --> 01:07:07.760
that make me not really identify with metal culture. I

962
01:07:07.800 --> 01:07:11.800
always tell people like that, I'm a I'm proudly opposer,

963
01:07:12.000 --> 01:07:15.400
Like if that's like I handed it in my metal

964
01:07:15.440 --> 01:07:18.880
card long long ago. I still mostly listen to metal,

965
01:07:19.280 --> 01:07:23.440
but you know, like I, it's stuff like that that

966
01:07:23.519 --> 01:07:27.320
I just don't identify with metal culture or like tribe

967
01:07:27.400 --> 01:07:33.840
metal tribalists thinking, because it's I mean, you just wind

968
01:07:33.880 --> 01:07:36.119
up with people saying dumb shit like that.

969
01:07:36.320 --> 01:07:39.840
And it's real limited thinking. Okay, like you gotta look

970
01:07:39.840 --> 01:07:42.679
at the big picture. Like even for me, it's funny

971
01:07:42.679 --> 01:07:44.840
you were mentioning the mashpit before and I go into

972
01:07:44.840 --> 01:07:51.599
the mashpit. To me, the mashpits very motivational and very positive.

973
01:07:52.119 --> 01:07:56.000
And the reason I feel it is is because that's

974
01:07:56.039 --> 01:07:58.400
where I get my shit out. So I don't beat

975
01:07:58.440 --> 01:08:01.800
the piss as somebody in real life, okay, ohing it

976
01:08:01.840 --> 01:08:05.320
what it is, you know, like, and you're not in

977
01:08:05.400 --> 01:08:08.000
there to hurt in main people, it's idiots that don't

978
01:08:08.079 --> 01:08:12.039
understand ma washing that do that. It's about a community,

979
01:08:12.480 --> 01:08:16.960
a family helping each other, picking each other up and

980
01:08:17.600 --> 01:08:20.760
getting out. Like we all have darkness with us, no

981
01:08:20.760 --> 01:08:23.520
matter how positive we are, we all have negative things

982
01:08:23.560 --> 01:08:27.239
going on and we need some kind of release. For me,

983
01:08:27.840 --> 01:08:30.479
the mash bit is a perfect release because I just

984
01:08:30.600 --> 01:08:34.279
get all my adrenaline pumped up and feeling good and

985
01:08:34.359 --> 01:08:38.479
get stuff out. I'm not hurting anybody. I'm just simply

986
01:08:39.359 --> 01:08:42.000
getting out my darkness or pain.

987
01:08:43.239 --> 01:08:45.520
Yeah. Like I said, I brought my brought my girlfriend

988
01:08:45.600 --> 01:08:48.439
to a Jest Court show this past week and she

989
01:08:48.640 --> 01:08:51.000
was like, she was like, I like the music, but

990
01:08:51.479 --> 01:08:55.159
like I mean, I didn't like the people were pushing

991
01:08:55.199 --> 01:08:57.520
each other like I wouldn't make that. And I was like,

992
01:09:00.159 --> 01:09:05.520
I can understand how from the outside that probably looks

993
01:09:07.239 --> 01:09:09.760
like like they're not having a good time or something,

994
01:09:09.840 --> 01:09:15.760
or like you're but metal causes you. There's this physical

995
01:09:15.800 --> 01:09:20.399
sensation that gets you amped up and you get this

996
01:09:20.640 --> 01:09:25.319
energy and like this very specific kind of aggressive energy,

997
01:09:25.479 --> 01:09:28.680
and the mosh pit when it's done right, when it's

998
01:09:28.720 --> 01:09:31.319
like a good mosh pit and not like something where

999
01:09:31.359 --> 01:09:35.520
somebody's gonna get sent to the hospital, you're getting that

1000
01:09:35.760 --> 01:09:40.640
feeling out, you're actuating that feeling that you're doing something

1001
01:09:40.680 --> 01:09:45.600
that it's sort of driving you to do without actually

1002
01:09:45.680 --> 01:09:47.279
hurting anybody exactly.

1003
01:09:47.520 --> 01:09:51.159
And I'll go a step further. So I was doing

1004
01:09:51.239 --> 01:09:55.279
coverage at Hellfest this summer and the person that was

1005
01:09:55.399 --> 01:09:58.960
my media helper, she had never really seen me in

1006
01:09:59.319 --> 01:10:05.479
a p okay and so Exodus was playing, and so

1007
01:10:05.600 --> 01:10:07.640
not only was I in the pit, but I started

1008
01:10:07.640 --> 01:10:09.720
the pit and I was in the pit for their

1009
01:10:09.760 --> 01:10:13.600
whole set, damn. And after I came out, she was like,

1010
01:10:15.000 --> 01:10:18.439
I have never seen you smile so much. And I'm

1011
01:10:18.439 --> 01:10:21.359
somebody that does smile, so it's not like I don't smile,

1012
01:10:22.159 --> 01:10:26.039
but she's like, oh my god, you were just grin

1013
01:10:26.079 --> 01:10:29.960
ear to ear the whole time. And I think that's

1014
01:10:30.000 --> 01:10:32.520
what people don't get, is that's what the pit does

1015
01:10:32.560 --> 01:10:34.800
for you. It doesn't make you an angry person a

1016
01:10:34.880 --> 01:10:38.720
depressive person, and the adrenaline that you get from it

1017
01:10:38.760 --> 01:10:42.720
is like such a euphoric feeling forget taking drugs, just

1018
01:10:42.800 --> 01:10:43.479
going a pit.

1019
01:10:44.319 --> 01:10:52.000
Yeah. I mean basically, all music gives you some kind

1020
01:10:52.079 --> 01:10:57.359
of a physical sensation, like dance music like em you know,

1021
01:10:57.600 --> 01:11:00.159
or makes you like, makes you want to dance. It's

1022
01:11:00.159 --> 01:11:03.079
a certain way, like reggaetne makes you want to shake

1023
01:11:03.119 --> 01:11:07.840
your ass, like uh it, it doesn't seem weird to

1024
01:11:07.880 --> 01:11:10.840
me that metal makes you want to do this other

1025
01:11:11.039 --> 01:11:14.079
thing that also a kind of dance.

1026
01:11:15.600 --> 01:11:18.479
Well, we worked. We did call it slam dancing before

1027
01:11:18.560 --> 01:11:20.279
there was ever such thing as washing.

1028
01:11:20.640 --> 01:11:24.600
Yeah, exactly. So the you know, it's all just this

1029
01:11:24.800 --> 01:11:29.920
physical expression of this music, and it doesn't really make

1030
01:11:29.960 --> 01:11:31.119
any logical sense.

1031
01:11:31.279 --> 01:11:35.000
But I think people don't get things unless they experience

1032
01:11:35.039 --> 01:11:38.239
a perfect example for me as I was covering this

1033
01:11:38.359 --> 01:11:42.760
festival here in Florida called Okachobefest one year, and they

1034
01:11:42.760 --> 01:11:46.119
had Scrillis and bass nectar, and I was one of

1035
01:11:46.159 --> 01:11:49.159
those people like I don't get why people go to

1036
01:11:49.279 --> 01:11:52.680
a concert for a DJ, like just go to the nightclub.

1037
01:11:53.079 --> 01:11:55.399
And I didn't get it. I really didn't get it

1038
01:11:56.000 --> 01:11:59.560
until I was there, Yeah, and I'm like, oh my god,

1039
01:12:00.039 --> 01:12:03.079
how I get it? Like it doesn't even have to

1040
01:12:03.119 --> 01:12:05.520
be my jam, but it was just so cool and

1041
01:12:05.600 --> 01:12:08.960
the energy was so cool and it was a lot

1042
01:12:09.000 --> 01:12:12.680
of fun, you know, And but you have to experience

1043
01:12:12.760 --> 01:12:15.640
it to get it. I think that's what it comes

1044
01:12:15.640 --> 01:12:15.960
down to.

1045
01:12:16.119 --> 01:12:20.239
Yeah, I didn't really I didn't really like Saboton until

1046
01:12:20.239 --> 01:12:24.000
I saw them live and then I was like, oh, yeah,

1047
01:12:24.039 --> 01:12:24.840
that's fucking sick.

1048
01:12:25.720 --> 01:12:29.159
Well, you know, it's funny. Is the band for me?

1049
01:12:29.560 --> 01:12:33.039
That was that I didn't like maybe unpopped their opinion

1050
01:12:33.279 --> 01:12:36.239
was God's smack until I saw them live, and then

1051
01:12:36.319 --> 01:12:38.560
I loved them. They had such a great live show.

1052
01:12:38.760 --> 01:12:41.520
And live shows art of different. There's artists that I

1053
01:12:41.680 --> 01:12:46.319
really like their music and don't really like their live show.

1054
01:12:46.399 --> 01:12:49.239
There's the opposite too, Like again going back to what

1055
01:12:49.279 --> 01:12:52.880
we were talking about, you know, and so it goes

1056
01:12:52.920 --> 01:12:55.520
both ways. And yeah, Sabaton does put on a really

1057
01:12:55.560 --> 01:12:58.720
good show. I almost got I almost got smashed in

1058
01:12:58.760 --> 01:13:00.920
their review by their state age one time.

1059
01:13:01.560 --> 01:13:02.119
Oh my god.

1060
01:13:02.760 --> 01:13:07.720
Yeah. So I was interviewing them back behind the stage

1061
01:13:07.800 --> 01:13:09.920
after they got off and it was the end of

1062
01:13:09.960 --> 01:13:13.439
the end of the festival and they were taking the

1063
01:13:13.439 --> 01:13:18.479
stage down and literally the back part of the stage

1064
01:13:18.720 --> 01:13:23.399
fell right where I was sitting. Like he he pointed,

1065
01:13:23.439 --> 01:13:25.520
it to me and I got out of away and

1066
01:13:25.560 --> 01:13:29.840
the scene came slamming down. It was right, it was

1067
01:13:30.000 --> 01:13:33.600
It's like in the interview. It was in the middle

1068
01:13:33.640 --> 01:13:37.720
of the interview. Uh, but yeah, I mean, but the

1069
01:13:37.800 --> 01:13:42.479
point is is that, yeah, like you do definitely have

1070
01:13:42.640 --> 01:13:47.199
to experience things before you pass judgment on them, because

1071
01:13:47.800 --> 01:13:50.399
you just never know that, you know. I talked about

1072
01:13:50.399 --> 01:13:52.239
bringing Me to Rise, and I didn't know who they

1073
01:13:52.279 --> 01:13:56.600
were back in the Death Core days. I recently discovered

1074
01:13:56.600 --> 01:14:01.119
them like before a couple of years before COVID because

1075
01:14:01.239 --> 01:14:03.680
I was at festival and they were doing a live

1076
01:14:03.760 --> 01:14:06.399
show and I was like, oh my god, and they're

1077
01:14:06.439 --> 01:14:09.119
like my top five favorite band now And it was

1078
01:14:09.239 --> 01:14:12.399
cause of that live show right there. And then you

1079
01:14:12.399 --> 01:14:16.640
talk about composition, like Ali is one of my favorite

1080
01:14:16.720 --> 01:14:21.399
songwriters ever, Like it just his lyrics kind of speak

1081
01:14:21.439 --> 01:14:24.039
to me, you know. And that's what it's about too.

1082
01:14:24.680 --> 01:14:29.840
It's you know whether the lyrics speak to you or not,

1083
01:14:30.239 --> 01:14:32.640
and you put your own meaning to it. Like I

1084
01:14:32.680 --> 01:14:36.159
think a great lyricist and a lot of them will

1085
01:14:36.199 --> 01:14:40.199
say this is yes, I'm writing it for me and

1086
01:14:40.239 --> 01:14:46.359
it's about my feelings. But I also am very good

1087
01:14:46.399 --> 01:14:48.600
with the fact that anybody else can put their own

1088
01:14:48.640 --> 01:14:50.640
meaning to. It doesn't have to be the same meaning

1089
01:14:50.720 --> 01:14:51.039
I have.

1090
01:14:52.680 --> 01:14:57.600
Yeah, I teach a lyric writing course. It's you know,

1091
01:14:57.640 --> 01:15:00.279
I mean, it's like a you know videos you can get.

1092
01:15:00.359 --> 01:15:03.760
It's called how to actually write lyrics. And there's a

1093
01:15:03.920 --> 01:15:05.800
concept that I talk about and they are called the

1094
01:15:05.960 --> 01:15:12.720
universal personal. And to me, if you're writing something that's

1095
01:15:12.840 --> 01:15:17.640
very personal, most people go through a lot of the

1096
01:15:17.680 --> 01:15:21.680
same basic things during their life. Like, we're not all

1097
01:15:22.039 --> 01:15:25.359
super different. So if you're writing something that's really super personal,

1098
01:15:26.399 --> 01:15:30.239
that's actually more universal than something than you trying to

1099
01:15:30.359 --> 01:15:35.640
find something that's very universal because you're a person and

1100
01:15:35.720 --> 01:15:38.359
the people that you're talking to are also people, and

1101
01:15:38.479 --> 01:15:42.720
like the very the specific details of their life are

1102
01:15:42.720 --> 01:15:44.880
going to be very different. But you know, we all

1103
01:15:44.960 --> 01:15:49.439
like go through a lot of very very similar things, so,

1104
01:15:52.239 --> 01:15:56.920
you know, regardless, like obviously a Sabotan song about a

1105
01:15:56.960 --> 01:16:01.960
specific battle during World War Two, like no, I wasn't there,

1106
01:16:02.239 --> 01:16:06.199
I didn't storm the beach at Norman or whatever, you know,

1107
01:16:06.439 --> 01:16:10.680
so that's like a bit different. But like the you know,

1108
01:16:10.760 --> 01:16:15.640
the there's a lot of things that you write about

1109
01:16:16.159 --> 01:16:18.960
yourself that other people are going to be able to

1110
01:16:19.079 --> 01:16:25.600
relate to. And yeah, that's no matter what you write,

1111
01:16:25.640 --> 01:16:27.720
people are going to view it through their own the

1112
01:16:27.800 --> 01:16:31.520
lens of their own life and experiences anyways. Yeah, so

1113
01:16:31.600 --> 01:16:37.399
even if they're not getting exactly the thing that you're saying, actually,

1114
01:16:37.439 --> 01:16:41.079
even if they did understand exactly what you're saying, they're

1115
01:16:41.119 --> 01:16:44.920
going to apply it to themselves in a certain way.

1116
01:16:45.359 --> 01:16:49.439
Absolutely, and that's good music. You know. I remember when

1117
01:16:49.479 --> 01:16:52.399
I was taking that one of those music classes in

1118
01:16:52.479 --> 01:16:58.159
college that they talked about what it takes to write

1119
01:16:58.159 --> 01:17:01.920
a hit song, and they used one specific song, an

1120
01:17:01.960 --> 01:17:05.880
example that at that time was considered the perfect example

1121
01:17:06.199 --> 01:17:10.199
of a perfect hit song. And basically what the professor

1122
01:17:10.279 --> 01:17:14.479
said was, and you know this goes into motivational stuff.

1123
01:17:14.520 --> 01:17:17.079
I talk about motivational stuff. There's three types of people.

1124
01:17:17.119 --> 01:17:21.239
There's auditory, visual, and kinesthetic, and if you can appeal

1125
01:17:21.319 --> 01:17:24.520
to all three types in the song, then it's a

1126
01:17:24.600 --> 01:17:27.720
hit song. And the song that he used as the

1127
01:17:27.840 --> 01:17:32.760
example was Stairway to Heaven. Interesting because if you take

1128
01:17:32.840 --> 01:17:36.640
the three parts of Stairway to Heaven, one of the

1129
01:17:36.680 --> 01:17:40.079
parts is for visual people, one is for auditory, and

1130
01:17:40.119 --> 01:17:43.600
one is for k aesthetic. You know, So now go

1131
01:17:43.680 --> 01:17:46.359
listen to that song again and you'll see, you know,

1132
01:17:47.399 --> 01:17:51.600
you have because there's distinctive three parts to the song

1133
01:17:52.640 --> 01:17:57.640
and they do fit those three different personalities like perfectly,

1134
01:17:57.760 --> 01:18:01.039
which is why it became so big, you know, is

1135
01:18:01.119 --> 01:18:03.840
because everybody could relate to it.

1136
01:18:04.319 --> 01:18:06.439
Yeah, that's that's a cool perspective on it. I never

1137
01:18:06.479 --> 01:18:07.439
thought of it like that.

1138
01:18:08.239 --> 01:18:12.079
Right, that was like wow. When when I heard that,

1139
01:18:12.159 --> 01:18:14.920
I was like, that makes so much sense. And now

1140
01:18:15.000 --> 01:18:17.399
every time I listen to that song, that's all I

1141
01:18:17.439 --> 01:18:22.840
hear is like I hear the progression of the auditory

1142
01:18:22.880 --> 01:18:27.319
to and the visual and the kinesthetic, and it's you know,

1143
01:18:28.079 --> 01:18:31.880
it's kind of amazing because it is true, like every

1144
01:18:31.920 --> 01:18:35.439
single person on the face of the earth would feel

1145
01:18:35.520 --> 01:18:40.439
some type of energy from that song. Yeah, that's awesome,

1146
01:18:41.560 --> 01:18:43.199
just like Desolation Throne.

1147
01:18:43.119 --> 01:18:45.239
Just like our song Desolation Throne.

1148
01:18:48.640 --> 01:18:54.359
So let's tell everybody, right, and you rank as one

1149
01:18:54.399 --> 01:18:58.039
of the I think top three or four longest interviews

1150
01:18:58.079 --> 01:19:01.239
I've done, so that says a lot. That's a that's

1151
01:19:01.279 --> 01:19:05.039
a good thing. I even start feeling bad, like I

1152
01:19:05.079 --> 01:19:08.840
wonder if you go somewhere else, But you know, and

1153
01:19:08.880 --> 01:19:10.199
there's been no deubt Air got.

1154
01:19:10.479 --> 01:19:14.840
You know, dinner with the Queen, gotta jump on a

1155
01:19:16.000 --> 01:19:18.760
my private jet to I don't know, right.

1156
01:19:19.079 --> 01:19:23.800
So let's tell everybody, okay, Age of Legends is set

1157
01:19:23.840 --> 01:19:29.159
to release November twenty first, and so tell everybody how

1158
01:19:29.199 --> 01:19:31.880
they can get the album, how they can check out

1159
01:19:31.920 --> 01:19:36.680
the singles, check out all your stuff, and even even

1160
01:19:36.720 --> 01:19:39.079
your website, which we didn't even get a chance to

1161
01:19:39.119 --> 01:19:42.199
talk about. That might take another hour. You know, your

1162
01:19:42.239 --> 01:19:45.720
your gear, No you're oh gear. Oh no, that's a

1163
01:19:45.760 --> 01:19:48.239
whole yeah, that's what I was saying that that that's

1164
01:19:48.239 --> 01:19:51.439
a whole nother end. But give up to your info

1165
01:19:51.479 --> 01:19:52.279
and contract.

1166
01:19:52.680 --> 01:19:56.399
I think the best way to get the real and

1167
01:19:56.520 --> 01:20:00.319
virtue experience is to go to our YouTube channel and

1168
01:20:00.439 --> 01:20:03.560
watch our music videos. And underneath those music videos in

1169
01:20:03.600 --> 01:20:06.000
the description you can find links to where to pre

1170
01:20:06.000 --> 01:20:11.199
save on your favorite streaming service and all of that

1171
01:20:12.840 --> 01:20:15.800
and to get all the information. But the to me,

1172
01:20:15.960 --> 01:20:20.319
the the music video will give you the full picture.

1173
01:20:20.560 --> 01:20:22.399
If you've never heard us before, you don't know what

1174
01:20:22.399 --> 01:20:25.560
we're all about, you'll get the full you know, we

1175
01:20:25.600 --> 01:20:31.279
have how many now five five total music videos I

1176
01:20:31.319 --> 01:20:34.760
think six actually one for a cover that are there

1177
01:20:34.840 --> 01:20:39.640
on the channel. So it's like YouTube dot com slash

1178
01:20:40.239 --> 01:20:42.960
at in Virtue, I think, But whatever, just search, you know,

1179
01:20:43.079 --> 01:20:44.039
just use the search.

1180
01:20:43.800 --> 01:20:47.119
Bar that sounds that sounds right, because yeah, that's why

1181
01:20:47.159 --> 01:20:49.640
I screwed up with something today with my own It

1182
01:20:49.720 --> 01:20:51.520
was like, oh, I forgot to put that at sign.

1183
01:20:52.159 --> 01:20:54.920
Yeah, people know how to search. We're the only band

1184
01:20:54.960 --> 01:20:57.159
called in Virtue as far as I know, there's another band,

1185
01:20:57.199 --> 01:20:59.279
as you pointed out, called Virtue.

1186
01:21:00.000 --> 01:21:02.279
You're used the right preposition.

1187
01:21:02.439 --> 01:21:05.159
Okay, they're also they're also quite good, so if you

1188
01:21:05.239 --> 01:21:08.720
fuck it up, you'll still be hearing good music. It

1189
01:21:08.840 --> 01:21:13.039
just won't be us. But yeah, our new music video,

1190
01:21:13.239 --> 01:21:16.840
Desolation Throne is out. We released one last month called

1191
01:21:16.880 --> 01:21:21.920
Gunslingers of the New American Desert. And on the day

1192
01:21:21.960 --> 01:21:23.840
that we release, I don't know if should I is

1193
01:21:23.880 --> 01:21:25.720
this a secret? I don't even know. We have another

1194
01:21:25.840 --> 01:21:27.720
video coming out that will drop on the day of

1195
01:21:27.760 --> 01:21:34.079
the album release that I don't know. Maybe there might

1196
01:21:34.119 --> 01:21:37.119
be a publicist watching this right now, going like I

1197
01:21:37.119 --> 01:21:40.880
don't tell them that I know, right, But it's fine,

1198
01:21:40.920 --> 01:21:42.960
Like I'm sure they probably could have predicted that. Anyway,

1199
01:21:42.960 --> 01:21:46.960
I've got another one coming and you know that's and

1200
01:21:47.079 --> 01:21:52.920
those are all just a a small view into this

1201
01:21:53.159 --> 01:21:56.560
entire album. That's fourteen fifteen tracks. I don't remember how

1202
01:21:56.560 --> 01:22:00.680
many tracks. It's somewhere between thirteen and sixteen tracks, fifty

1203
01:22:00.720 --> 01:22:06.119
minutes of music, and it's a complete journey, a tale

1204
01:22:07.520 --> 01:22:12.600
of just what I think of is being very heart

1205
01:22:12.640 --> 01:22:18.039
wrenching character development. It's actually a little difficult for me

1206
01:22:18.199 --> 01:22:20.279
to listen to the whole thing because I get very

1207
01:22:20.319 --> 01:22:25.760
emotional about it. If you want a really deep story,

1208
01:22:26.000 --> 01:22:28.800
you dive into the whole thing start to finish. Read

1209
01:22:28.800 --> 01:22:34.640
the lyrics Age of Legends, out November twenty first.

1210
01:22:35.319 --> 01:22:40.520
Nice And you know, it's funny because every time I

1211
01:22:40.560 --> 01:22:44.920
hear that album name, I can't even help it, but

1212
01:22:45.399 --> 01:22:46.239
I just think of.

1213
01:22:46.279 --> 01:22:52.239
Marvel mar Oh yeah, it's a it's it's a reference

1214
01:22:53.199 --> 01:22:55.640
kind of in a roundabout way to the Wheel of

1215
01:22:55.760 --> 01:23:00.880
Time series, the books Robert Jordan.

1216
01:23:01.039 --> 01:23:07.600
But I see, you just prove something else too that

1217
01:23:07.640 --> 01:23:10.479
I know to be true. But a lot of these

1218
01:23:10.520 --> 01:23:14.600
people out there that think metal heads are not intellectuals,

1219
01:23:15.000 --> 01:23:18.600
first of all, this interview proves that. But the fact

1220
01:23:18.680 --> 01:23:24.239
that so many metal songs albums are based on books,

1221
01:23:25.239 --> 01:23:29.079
Oh yeah, I mean Iron Maiden exactly. You know, you

1222
01:23:29.159 --> 01:23:30.239
took that out of my head.

1223
01:23:30.640 --> 01:23:34.800
Bro just goes through his his library. He's like, hey, oh,

1224
01:23:34.840 --> 01:23:37.159
time to write a new album. Just like, what are

1225
01:23:37.199 --> 01:23:39.359
the books that I've read? Right?

1226
01:23:41.760 --> 01:23:45.680
So anyway, Yeah, the music's badass. Everybody's got to check

1227
01:23:45.720 --> 01:23:50.640
it out. And you know, as I say many times,

1228
01:23:51.199 --> 01:23:53.520
if they don't get the album, they can't listen to

1229
01:23:53.560 --> 01:23:53.960
my show.

1230
01:23:55.199 --> 01:23:57.119
Yeah, that's the ticket.

1231
01:23:57.399 --> 01:24:00.199
That's the right and there it is. So do you

1232
01:24:00.239 --> 01:24:02.000
have any last words you want to share with the

1233
01:24:02.039 --> 01:24:05.079
listeners that we haven't covered already because we've covered pretty

1234
01:24:05.119 --> 01:24:07.960
much everything except you know, the part two, which will

1235
01:24:07.960 --> 01:24:08.840
be about your gear.

1236
01:24:09.720 --> 01:24:13.640
Oh man, Well, just that we appreciate you all very

1237
01:24:13.720 --> 01:24:19.600
much and we, more than anything else, just want to

1238
01:24:19.640 --> 01:24:24.720
hear from you. So please leave some comments on anything

1239
01:24:24.760 --> 01:24:27.479
you see of us. Let us like, you know, you

1240
01:24:27.560 --> 01:24:29.600
put a lot of work into a thing and you

1241
01:24:29.640 --> 01:24:35.079
put it out there, and the number one thing that

1242
01:24:35.159 --> 01:24:40.119
you want is a response, like a really honest response,

1243
01:24:40.239 --> 01:24:43.840
like I want to know if you're picking up what

1244
01:24:43.960 --> 01:24:48.039
we're putting down. You know, watch the video, read the lyrics,

1245
01:24:48.119 --> 01:24:53.840
listen to the music, and just just populate the comments section.

1246
01:24:55.039 --> 01:25:00.199
There you go. And if John does listen or watch this. Okay,

1247
01:25:00.880 --> 01:25:05.000
don't worry, John. We won't tell anybody about the secret

1248
01:25:05.119 --> 01:25:07.800
we weren't supposed to talk about that we talked about before.

1249
01:25:11.000 --> 01:25:16.760
Nobody will know. We won't tell a soul. Well, thanks

1250
01:25:16.800 --> 01:25:22.239
a lot for making us some great music. Oh my pleasure.

1251
01:25:22.520 --> 01:25:24.479
Me just absolutely yack about it.

1252
01:25:25.000 --> 01:25:28.119
I know. Well, see I like that. See there's two

1253
01:25:28.159 --> 01:25:32.199
types of interviews. There's types like this that that I

1254
01:25:32.239 --> 01:25:35.239
would be getting yelled at at a tour manager at

1255
01:25:35.239 --> 01:25:38.760
a festival because it went too long. And then there's

1256
01:25:38.800 --> 01:25:42.319
the type that you mean, I still have five more

1257
01:25:42.439 --> 01:25:43.640
minutes left of this.

1258
01:25:44.399 --> 01:25:50.319
Yep, try patting it out to fill the time right exactly.

1259
01:25:50.560 --> 01:25:56.880
So that's why it went so long, because it was engaging,

1260
01:25:57.439 --> 01:26:01.279
great and everybody should listen to the whole interview because

1261
01:26:02.079 --> 01:26:05.079
it was definitely we covered a lot of ground and

1262
01:26:05.119 --> 01:26:09.159
it's badass music and that's all that came to exactly. Well,

1263
01:26:09.199 --> 01:26:11.319
thank you for being on the Adventures of Pipe Cook.

1264
01:26:11.920 --> 01:26:17.279
Oh yeah, thank you for listening to the Adventures of

1265
01:26:17.479 --> 01:26:22.000
Pipemin on w for CUI Radio.