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Sept. 15, 2026

Building Bridges Muslim and Jewish Voices Find Common Ground with Kirana Sidin

Building Bridges Muslim and Jewish Voices Find Common Ground with Kirana Sidin
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In this heartfelt episode of The Adventures of Pipeman, Pipeman welcomes author and coach Kirana Sidin. The two explore the realities of cross-religious friendship, the misconceptions perpetuated by politics and media, and how embracing our shared humanity can transform society. Drawing from personal stories and global experiences, they challenge stereotypes, discuss the power of travel and education, and reflect on the true values behind faith. Kirana Sidin also introduces her reflective self-help book, "Cheers for a Good Life."

Main Topics Covered

  • Breaking religious and cultural stereotypes
  • The impact of political leaders and media on societal division
  • Personal experiences of intercultural harmony
  • The importance of self-education and travel
  • The core values of major world religions
  • How fear fuels hatred and misunderstanding
  • Living authentically and respectfully in a diverse world
  • Kirana Sidin's book and coaching work
Key Discussions & StoriesCross-Religious Friendship
  • Pipeman, a Jew, and Kirana Sidin, a Muslim, discuss their friendship as a model for unity (00:19, 02:17).
  • Both agree that without political interference, people of different faiths can coexist peacefully.
Personal Experiences with Diversity
  • Kirana Sidin shares growing up in Indonesia among Muslims, Christians, Catholics, Hindus, and Buddhists (02:39).
  • Pipeman recounts living in Muslim-majority neighborhoods in the Netherlands and Indonesia, feeling at peace and welcomed (06:38, 11:41).
Education and Travel
  • The duo emphasizes studying various religions and traveling to combat ignorance and stereotypes (05:09, 06:18, 10:37).
Media & Political Influence
  • Both critique how media sensationalism and political agendas amplify division and spread misconceptions (08:11, 22:13).
Shared Human Values
  • The fundamental teachings of all religions—compassion, kindness, dignity, and respect—are highlighted as universal (04:24, 28:12).
  • The importance of questioning and understanding, rather than blindly believing or fearing, is underlined (25:47, 31:06).
Addressing Global Events
  • They discuss the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, emphasizing that ordinary people are not the cause—regimes and extremist leaders are (14:09, 15:25, 23:15).
  • Calls for separating political opinions from judging entire populations (21:03).
Embracing Differences
  • Both advocate for loving and respecting differences, noting life would be boring if everyone were the same (25:09).
  • The significance of the hijab and similar religious practices is discussed as personal choice, not a threat (33:20).
Notable Quotes
  • "Being deeply connected to my faith doesn't mean I need to see people from other religions as less connected to me as human beings." — Kirana Sidin (02:30)
  • "If you just sit down and talk to somebody that's different from you, you'll find out that they're not that different." — Pipeman (07:34)
  • "We don't have to arrive at the same spiritual conclusion to treat each other with respect." — Kirana Sidin (03:43)
  • "If you're not being a better person because of religion, that's you, that's on you." — Pipeman (28:24)
  • "Fear is a big thing that causes religious hate." — Pipeman (28:37)
  • "Our Prophet Muhammad taught us to always treat Jewish people nicely, to always treat Christian people nicely." — Kirana Sidin (31:40)
Resources & Links Mentioned
  • Book: Cheers for a Good Life by Kirana Sidin
    • A reflective, essay-style book focused on building an authentic good life, drawing from philosophy, psychology, timeless wisdom, and Kirana Sidin's personal journey (35:43).
    • Explores faith, humanity, and practical ways to live meaningfully.
  • Coaching & Website:
    • cheersforthegoodlife.com — find coaching resources, information about the book, and more about Kirana Sidin’s work (39:09).
Additional Notes
  • The episode highlights the need for self-inquiry, continuous education, and the courage to question both inherited dogma and societal narratives.
  • Kirana Sidin connects pop culture references (Gilmore Girls, TLC) with philosophical and spiritual lessons, illustrating the universality of human experience.
  • Both speakers encourage listeners to foster understanding, peace, and love in their communities.
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WEBVTT

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Hi, you're listening to Adventure on W4CY Radio. This is

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the Pipe Man here on the Adventures of Pipe Man

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W4CY Radio, and I'm very excited about our next guest

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for many reasons. Great author, great ideas, great things she

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does to help people. But also what I really love

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is I'm a Jew, she's a Muslim, and we get along.

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And that's the way it should be.

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And so let's welcome to the show Kirana Siddin.

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Hi, Dean, the Pipe Man. Thank you so much for

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bringing me to your show. It's been an honor to me,

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and I can't wait to have this wonderful conversation with you,

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my Jewish fellow.

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Yes, and So this came about because you were going

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to be a guest. You were looking to be a

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guest and are a guest on another show on our network.

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And you and I started talking because there's so much

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going on in the world right now that is smoke

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and mirrors, in my opinion. It's the powers that be

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that are using the old trick book, Divide and Conquer,

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to divide all of us and make us hate each other,

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when in all reality, that's not the truth. And, you know,

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people think it's one side or the other, and it

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really isn't.

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We're all human beings.

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And the fact is, is if you remove political leaders

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and people trying to divide us, Muslims and Jews do

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get along and do love each other. You know, it's

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what we don't love. are the politics and the leaders

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and all that goes along with that. And so that's

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a big reason I brought you on the show, to

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show people that you and I can be from different

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parts of the world, different religions, and still be on

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the same page.

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Yeah, that's great to start, yeah. Because one thing that's

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very important to me, especially as a Muslim woman, yeah,

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is that I see Islam as a peaceful religion. That's

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for me. Being deeply connected to my faith doesn't mean

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I need to see people from other religion as less

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connected to me as human beings, right? I grew up

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in Indonesia where Muslim, Christian, Catholics, Hindus, Buddhists, and people

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with different beliefs live alongside each other. From a very

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young age, we're taught that difference is simply part of life.

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it's also reflected in our national values. It's Pancasila and

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Bhinneka Tunggal Ika. It means like unity in diversity. And

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I think those values are still very much of how

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much Indonesian live. Of course, we're not perfect. There are

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tensions and negative incidents. But overall, we're quite accustomed to

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being different while still sharing the same space. community and

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country peacefully so yeah for me that's also shape how

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i see faith i can believe in islam while someone

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else believes in christianity judaism or another faith we don't

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have to arrive at the same spiritual conclusion to treat

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each other which with respect right and i think sometimes

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we become to attach to labels as a muslim as

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christian as jewish indonesian and so on And forget that

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before any of those identities, we're simply a human, right? So, yeah,

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we all have fears. We all have hopes. People we

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love loses with experience and a desire to feel safe

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and understood. So I don't think like coexistence means saying

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we're all the same. Yeah, of course we're not. But

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it means being different and still choosing not to dehumanize

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each other. That's really important for me. Yeah, and for me,

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that's what faith should do, right? If my faith teaches

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me compassion, dignity, kindness, and respect, then those values should

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extend to people who believe differently from me. It's simple

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as that. Sometimes we don't need to completely understand someone's

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faith or worldview to over them dignity, no. We just

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need to be human enough to try. That's, I think,

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the most important thing. So, yeah, and maybe that's why

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when I think about all of this conversation around religion

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and identity, I come back to something very simple. So before, like,

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we ask, what religion are you? Or before we ask,

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where are you from? Or before we ask, what do

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you believe? Maybe we just need to ask, how can

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I treat you as another human being? So, yeah, as

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simple as that.

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No doubt.

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And that's why we get along because we were talking

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about that.

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Yeah.

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I'm also a firm believer as somebody that did this myself,

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that everybody should study all religions, not to believe in them,

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but to understand and respect the differences and the similarities.

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Because we all go by the basic foundation. There's just

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very subtle differences sometimes. And the thing is, is that

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we take the extremists and any type of people, religion, people, whatever,

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And we make that the stereotype. And that's not the stereotype.

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I've read the Quran and I agree with you. It's

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a peaceful book. It's the fundamental terrorists that take it

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and twist the words around and make it something that

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is not peaceful. But that's not, if you actually study,

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instead of, I think people, instead of being influenced by others,

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You need to make your own decision, educate yourself, and

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you will see a lot more. Another thing is, too,

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is I think everybody in the world needs to travel

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all over because then you get such an education and

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an eye-opening experience. I think you and I had a

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conversation where I said, A, I've been in Indonesia for

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a few months. Yeah, yeah. B, I was in Netherlands

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all the time I'm there. And like in the Netherlands,

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I'll speak there first and then we'll go to Indonesia.

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But I was living in a neighborhood that had a

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lot of Muslims in it.

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Yeah, exactly.

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If that were the case in other places, including the

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United States, Jews might be like fearful or people might

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be fearful because of what we're told. And let me

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tell you something, just humans, you know, and like, I

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got along great with everybody and there, I had, I

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had a lot less fear living in a Muslim neighborhood

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in the Netherlands than I, and then I would in

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certain neighborhoods in the United States where we are divided,

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you know, because there was no division there. We were

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just all a bunch of people that lived there. It

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didn't matter what walk of life or what have you.

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And if you just sit down and talk to somebody

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that's different from you, you'll find out that they're not

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that different is the point. And I love what you

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said about respect because I think that's something society has

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lost recently. You know, and with everything that's going on, listen,

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don't blame the people, blame the governments, blame the political leaders,

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you know, and they're the ones stirring us up to

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hate each other and let's not give them that control.

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Mm-hmm.

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Yeah, I think what you said is all is on point, yeah.

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I think we've been solved this wrong version of also

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kind of like, you know, we already got so many

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information that probably like that like being steering to, we

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don't know, yeah. We don't know who has that kind

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of benefit to that some kind of information, right? But sometimes, yeah,

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I think media to always like big, make it something

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bigger than it's, I think, But the realization or the expectation,

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it's not something like that, right? But people will always

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like telling you something and then people are just, okay,

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so that's what happened. And then just people like have

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this some kind of stigma that, yeah, being Muslim is

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like this and being Jewish like this and become someone

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that Christian is more like this. And then they're like,

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they're not like us. And then they have so many

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like hate us, hate us. that have so many head

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toward us. So that I think the information also some

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kind of something that may deal to that also like

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making it more worse for us to living as a

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human in this nowadays world. And also like just sit

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together just because we're human. It's not like we're like

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having this kind of some kind of different religion and

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also different faith and probably different political views too probably.

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And then we're just like being boxes, each other. So yeah,

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I think, yeah, there is something that you like more

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that the problem that we're dealing with the nowhere this

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world that people were always telling us, yeah, there's some

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kind of information that probably is not right. But yeah,

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it's always happening all the time. it's like and it's

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more like the gap is bigger than ever so yeah

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I think yeah we have to learn again what against

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yeah and then what you said that about you being

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like uh learn learn educate yourself yeah it's really correct

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because yeah if we cannot like we cannot like uh

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make a conclusion or we cannot like learn about something

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if we're not like jump into that into that lesson

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and then we're just uh learning by mass by ourself

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rather than we only like listen to the others right

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and then telling you something that probably is not right

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it's not quite right and then there is something that

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we have to discover by ourself Is it something, is

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it true or not? Yeah, so that is, I think,

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educated ourselves. Yeah, it's really correct. And also, I really like,

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also agree with the idea with you that, yeah, probably

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sometimes you have to traveling more to know what really

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happening to the world that you probably have some kind

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of assumption before, right? People will see that being in

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the Muslim country like Indonesia probably, And then you will

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feel that. And then you probably are Jewish. And then

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people will think that I will probably, I will get

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hate there from the people in Indonesia. But in fact,

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you already like experience it. You didn't get that some

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kind of treatment right from us as a Indonesian and

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also Muslim. And you're living in that kind of neighborhood.

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So yeah, I think that is a very good start

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if you have that some kind of source for always

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like do traveling. So you can really know what really

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exists in this, And then what your assumption toward the

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thing that happening in the other side of your world.

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Is really happening. Yeah.

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Yeah.

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And, you know, to your point, when I was in Indonesia,

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the people I met there are some of the nicest

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people I've ever met in the world.

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Yeah.

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And one thing that really.

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Impressed me was, like you were saying, is I was

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going to all these different, you know, mosques.

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And Hindu temples.

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And like, I even went into this one, you have

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to climb into in like a cave and it's shared

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by Buddhists and Hindus. Like it's a Buddhist and Hindu temple.

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And I'm like, I remember getting in there. I'm like,

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now this is the way it should be because you

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know what? The fact of the matter is, You know,

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even with the differences in our traditions, the traditions are great.

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And maybe experience those other traditions and understand them instead

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of hating people because their traditions are different than yours.

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And I got to tell you, too, like I remember

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one in the like one of the first more days,

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like when I first checked into a hotel. forget what

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hour it was, but I heard what sounded like a

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concert in the background.

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Okay. And I didn't know what it was. Okay. And

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I was like, Whoa, what is that?

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And I literally went out to see if there's like

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some kind of cool event going on or some concert.

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And it was really just, it was really just the

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mosque on those different hours where it does that.

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And, and I was like, wow, that's really cool.

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Like if you would have told me about that ahead

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of time, like people do.

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It's not the same as experiencing it.

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So it's like people could talk about that and think

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it may turn it into a bad thing. And I

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just thought it was really cool. You know, it was

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like an experience. And I think that's what people need

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to start to learn. Just experience things. You don't have

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to believe in them, but experience them. And even to

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the point of what we're talking about, okay, anti-Semitism is

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so rampant nowadays because of what's going on with Israel

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and Palestine. But the bottom line is, people, it's not

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about Israelis. It's not about Palestinians. It's not about Persian people.

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It's about the regime. It's about Hamas. It's about Hezbollah.

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It's about the Israeli government. Stop making these leaders and

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these governments the example of the people as a whole

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because in Israel, I can tell you for a fact

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that Muslims and Jews, for the most part, walk in harmony.

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They're free to have religious freedom in Israel. LGBTQ people

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have freedom. I think a lot of people in my

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country right now that are protesting Jews, and they are

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protesting Jews, not just Israelis.

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And I think.

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They don't realize that if you go to Israel, you

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would probably be accepted more than you would other places,

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even though you think that you're not accepted there. And

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I think that's true of a lot of places.

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In the world.

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And even with What's going on in Iran? I have

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a lot of Persian friends. The Persians and the Jews

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have always gotten along. It's the regime that's always been

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the problem. And the regime is oppressing people. The regime

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is doing things. And that is what causes all this conflict.

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So stop blaming Iranians. Stop blaming Jews. Stop blaming Israelis.

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Stop blaming Muslims. Stop blaming Christians. Start blaming people that

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want us divided and want us hating each other so

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that they can all get what they want and none

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of us get what we want.

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Oh my God, I do really agree that all of

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that you say. I think I'm glad that you bring

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it to this conversation because that's what I feel. You

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know that? I always think that is not something to

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do with the people itself. It's always been a regime,

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the government, the political ideas behind it that makes me

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getting worse and worse each day. So yeah, that's basically,

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I really love your explanation before about something that people

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is like getting along, Muslim and Jewish, like getting along

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in Israel. Can you do something? Can you tell me

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more about it? because I really like Korea's.

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Well, you mean what I was talking about, what happens

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in Israel, correct?

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Mm-hmm.

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Yeah, so in Israel, believe it or not, most people

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don't know this unless they visit Israel. It's one of

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the most liberal places on the planet, even though it

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has a conservative government. And it's the conservative government that's extreme.

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It's not that they're conservative, it's that they're extreme. You know, listen,

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I'm a Jew. That doesn't mean I have to like Netanyahu, okay?

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Mm-hmm.

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But that does mean I do like Israel and I

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do like my Israeli people, you know. And the thing is,

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when you walk around Israel, there's a predominant amount of

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Muslims there.

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It's not just Jews.

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There's a predominant amount of Christians there. There's people from

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all walks of life and everybody is free to do it. Now,

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and I'm not saying it in a bad way towards

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Palestinians because, again, it's not about the people. But because

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of Hamas being in control of the Palestinian area, that's

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not necessarily.

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True when you go there.

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Because if you're a woman, if you're LGBTQ or anything

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like that, you don't really have rights in some parts

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of the world like that. In Israel, women have the

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same rights as men. People in LGBTQ have the same

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rights as people.

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That are not.

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And they all live in harmony. I know plenty of

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Israelis I'm friends with that some of their best friends

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are Muslims that live in Israel and can live peacefully

295
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in Israel. And same going with Iran. There's many Iranians

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that live in Israel. And they're freer.

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Than they are in their own country. Why? Because of

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the regime.

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You know, because as you know, in countries like that,

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even in Indonesia, as you know, your government can be

301
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quite oppressive, you know, the government itself. But the people

302
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are like some of the nicest people in the world

303
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I ever met.

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Like, it's wild.

305
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When I was there, every single day you pass by somebody,

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they smile at you and say hello.

307
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And greet you. Yeah, and greet you, right?

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That doesn't happen here in the United States, I can

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00:19:05.559 --> 00:19:09.480
tell you, especially where I live. It's like people, you

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say hello to them, they look at you like.

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They're free heads.

312
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Right, exactly.

313
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Doing like, hi, how are you? Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.

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I was like, wow, this is really cool. You know,

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and that's the way it should be everywhere.

316
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Yeah, yeah, yeah, I totally agree. I think it's kind

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of sad that I just like hear some kind of

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this relative coming from you. Because like, once again, we're

319
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being sold that different kind of version that happening in

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the other world. Yeah, in this different country in the world. Yeah,

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that probably people are telling us, yeah, Israel is just

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like this and all. Palestine is just like this. I think, yeah,

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there's some, because like the information that coming to us

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is not something that probably right, right? Because like this

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is eventually make some kind of gap every day and

326
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more like miss making it more bigger, the problem, even

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though they probably in the reality, the people who just

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leave each other like, and then always get, get along

329
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it's not something that they want to like to uh

330
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to bring into the table right so yeah i think

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this is some kind of really a sad sad thing

332
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to hear yeah from you because yeah i want to

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00:20:26.460 --> 00:20:30.769
hear something about this more because yeah i think world

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nowadays you really need the this some kind of you

335
00:20:33.869 --> 00:20:38.180
know information because yeah We live in the world full

336
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of chaos right now. We cannot say that it's okay.

337
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But in Indonesia here, there is very strong sympathy for

338
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the Palestinian people. And I think that's influenced by a

339
00:20:49.910 --> 00:20:53.720
combination of our history, our religious values, our moral policy,

340
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and simply a sense of community when people see civilian suffering.

341
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But personally, I try to separate political position from how

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I see people, right? I can stand for the rights

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and dignity of Palestinians without believing that I need to

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hate Jewish people, as they say. Or people who have

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a different perspective from mine. So that is basically. So

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for me, that's where faith and humanity have to meet.

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I can be deeply rooted in my own faith and

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still believe that people of different faith, different religions deserve dignity,

349
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the same dignity, the same respect and the same safety.

350
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So yeah, I don't think we need to agree on

351
00:21:35.470 --> 00:21:40.170
every political or religious question to recognize each other's humanity.

352
00:21:40.549 --> 00:21:43.750
So I think what you said before is really make

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me feels getting some kind of hope into the humanity

354
00:21:47.990 --> 00:21:51.009
right now, you know? I think that I want to

355
00:21:51.190 --> 00:21:54.410
hear more because we live in the world that full

356
00:21:54.470 --> 00:21:55.630
of chaos right now, yeah.

357
00:21:56.269 --> 00:22:01.680
Well, and you think about it, okay, listen, If we

358
00:22:01.740 --> 00:22:05.539
weren't divided and we were all united with all our differences,

359
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the people of power would have no power. That's why

360
00:22:11.000 --> 00:22:16.119
they divide us. Because we would have strength against them.

361
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And if we want to solve the world's problems and

362
00:22:19.470 --> 00:22:22.829
all get along, we need to band together and not

363
00:22:23.029 --> 00:22:26.569
listen to the media anymore. and the political, because the

364
00:22:26.589 --> 00:22:29.970
media is influenced by the politicians nowadays more.

365
00:22:29.829 --> 00:22:31.470
Than ever, you know?

366
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And, like, I know in your country, as well as

367
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many countries, even my own country, you know, even now,

368
00:22:41.880 --> 00:22:44.759
in our country where we have quote-unquote free and limited press,

369
00:22:44.819 --> 00:22:47.400
it's really not free and limited press anymore here a

370
00:22:47.440 --> 00:22:51.339
lot of times. Like, if you say something that leaders

371
00:22:51.400 --> 00:22:53.380
don't like, it gets blocked.

372
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You know?

373
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And I know that happens in many other countries, including yours. Like,

374
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if there's certain things.

375
00:23:00.369 --> 00:23:04.309
People say that America is full of freedom, right? Right.

376
00:23:04.789 --> 00:23:08.210
People always say that America is the country with so

377
00:23:08.250 --> 00:23:12.130
much freedom to speech or whatever. But indeed, you experience

378
00:23:12.150 --> 00:23:14.730
that kind of thing. So I think it's really sad.

379
00:23:15.730 --> 00:23:16.289
Exactly.

380
00:23:16.329 --> 00:23:19.809
And then the fact of the matter is, like, talking

381
00:23:19.829 --> 00:23:22.289
about the Palestinian people, okay?

382
00:23:22.829 --> 00:23:26.589
They're just people. They're just human beings. They're not the issue.

383
00:23:27.130 --> 00:23:28.490
The issue is Hamas.

384
00:23:28.539 --> 00:23:30.099
Yeah, exactly.

385
00:23:30.450 --> 00:23:34.960
And, you know, the influence that that has and what

386
00:23:35.099 --> 00:23:40.500
is being said and what is brainwashing people, you know,

387
00:23:40.839 --> 00:23:46.000
and they don't want Israelis and Palestinians to be together

388
00:23:46.039 --> 00:23:48.420
because then they might talk like you and I are

389
00:23:48.460 --> 00:23:52.279
talking now and find out we're not so different. and

390
00:23:52.319 --> 00:23:56.480
that we do love each other, and that we don't.

391
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Have these.

392
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Ideas that the propaganda promotes. I mean, I even think

393
00:24:05.819 --> 00:24:07.940
of the thing with the genocide thing.

394
00:24:09.720 --> 00:24:10.240
I don't know.

395
00:24:10.599 --> 00:24:16.420
Six million Jews getting killed is a genocide. I don't

396
00:24:16.440 --> 00:24:21.660
even consider what happened on October 7th in Israel a genocide, okay?

397
00:24:22.069 --> 00:24:26.130
I think we're throwing around these words. I don't think

398
00:24:26.150 --> 00:24:31.450
the Israelis want to eliminate Palestinians. They want to eliminate Hamas.

399
00:24:32.019 --> 00:24:37.880
They want to eliminate the regime. That's hugely different, okay?

400
00:24:38.599 --> 00:24:44.759
And the fact is, Palestinians and Jews have gotten along

401
00:24:45.220 --> 00:24:51.660
for centuries, except when the government gets involved. And when

402
00:24:51.839 --> 00:24:55.380
they're pitting us against each other, and there is a

403
00:24:55.460 --> 00:24:57.539
campaign of hate out there.

404
00:24:57.420 --> 00:24:59.400
Right now on all sides.

405
00:24:59.680 --> 00:24:59.960
Exactly.

406
00:25:00.039 --> 00:25:01.200
On all sides.

407
00:25:01.559 --> 00:25:05.799
And it's ridiculous because we are all humans. We have

408
00:25:05.859 --> 00:25:09.559
our differences. I think we should love each other's differences.

409
00:25:09.579 --> 00:25:12.700
It'd be a boring planet if we were all exactly

410
00:25:12.759 --> 00:25:14.059
the same, okay?

411
00:25:14.079 --> 00:25:15.279
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

412
00:25:15.900 --> 00:25:19.690
And my belief is when it comes to religion....

413
00:25:20.460 --> 00:25:24.609
If what you believe in makes you a better person

414
00:25:24.769 --> 00:25:28.589
and makes you feel good, that is all that counts.

415
00:25:28.650 --> 00:25:31.950
You don't have to believe what I believe. Some people

416
00:25:32.029 --> 00:25:36.539
connect with certain things more than others. And I also think, too,

417
00:25:37.079 --> 00:25:39.240
that you can take a little bit from everything, which

418
00:25:39.299 --> 00:25:44.019
is what I do. We're taught in Judaism not to

419
00:25:44.099 --> 00:25:47.990
believe the Torah but to study Torah. We're also taught

420
00:25:48.049 --> 00:25:51.509
that it's a commandment by God to question everything and

421
00:25:51.569 --> 00:25:55.470
question God and question the Bible and question Torah, not

422
00:25:55.519 --> 00:25:59.960
believe it. Because that's how we learn, with questions, okay?

423
00:26:00.220 --> 00:26:04.980
And the fact of the matter is, is that, you know,

424
00:26:05.859 --> 00:26:11.299
we all have certain things we gravitate to or that

425
00:26:11.339 --> 00:26:14.519
we grew up with that just becomes tradition or habit.

426
00:26:15.079 --> 00:26:19.140
But for somebody like me, I also have Buddhist philosophies.

427
00:26:19.200 --> 00:26:21.650
I like some of the Hindu philosophies. I like some

428
00:26:21.869 --> 00:26:26.210
Muslim philosophies. I like some Christian philosophies. And as a Jew,

429
00:26:26.869 --> 00:26:30.630
I feel that's okay because we don't have to just

430
00:26:30.670 --> 00:26:34.650
be one way. Things aren't black and white. And really,

431
00:26:35.029 --> 00:26:38.269
do we really know the truth? Do we really know

432
00:26:38.309 --> 00:26:39.450
what's going to happen?

433
00:26:39.829 --> 00:26:40.430
We don't.

434
00:26:40.980 --> 00:26:44.500
So why not just all get along, love each other,

435
00:26:44.539 --> 00:26:47.319
respect the differences instead of hating them?

436
00:26:48.259 --> 00:26:51.380
Yeah, I actually think this is something we really need

437
00:26:51.420 --> 00:26:54.500
to learn as a world. Yeah, I'm a Muslim once again,

438
00:26:54.559 --> 00:26:58.049
and I believe Islam is peaceful religion. But being deeply

439
00:26:58.109 --> 00:27:01.269
rooted in my own faith doesn't mean I have to

440
00:27:01.289 --> 00:27:04.190
see people from other religion as somehow less connected to

441
00:27:04.210 --> 00:27:05.069
me as human.

442
00:27:04.829 --> 00:27:05.289
Beings, right?

443
00:27:06.029 --> 00:27:09.279
I grew up in Indonesia, where different religions live alongside

444
00:27:09.339 --> 00:27:12.259
each other. So I've learned that we don't have to

445
00:27:12.339 --> 00:27:15.079
agree on everything in order to respect each other, just

446
00:27:15.099 --> 00:27:17.859
like what you said before. I can't believe in Islam.

447
00:27:17.920 --> 00:27:22.460
Someone else can't believe, once again, in Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism,

448
00:27:22.809 --> 00:27:26.390
or another faith. Just probably like you, that trying to

449
00:27:26.529 --> 00:27:29.650
make sense of all of the religion, and then you

450
00:27:29.670 --> 00:27:33.309
can basically implement it in your everyday life, right? And

451
00:27:33.329 --> 00:27:38.329
then We don't have to arrive at the same spiritual

452
00:27:38.829 --> 00:27:42.890
conclusion to treat each other with dignity. And I think, yes,

453
00:27:42.990 --> 00:27:48.339
sometimes we make coexistence more complicated than it actually is.

454
00:27:48.859 --> 00:27:51.180
It doesn't mean that, yeah, it doesn't mean we have

455
00:27:51.220 --> 00:27:55.460
to erase our differences or pretend that all religions are

456
00:27:55.519 --> 00:27:59.140
the same. Yeah, we are not the same. Yeah, yeah,

457
00:27:59.349 --> 00:28:01.730
we're not the same. It's simply we're different.

458
00:28:01.869 --> 00:28:02.170
But yeah.

459
00:28:02.529 --> 00:28:06.960
It simply means we don't allow those differences to erase

460
00:28:07.119 --> 00:28:07.839
our humanity.

461
00:28:08.480 --> 00:28:11.480
And we do have one thing that's the same. Yeah.

462
00:28:11.900 --> 00:28:13.079
As simple as that.

463
00:28:13.880 --> 00:28:17.119
The thing that's the same for all religions is the

464
00:28:17.140 --> 00:28:20.609
whole basis of religion is to become a better person.

465
00:28:21.049 --> 00:28:21.349
Yeah.

466
00:28:21.369 --> 00:28:24.150
That's where we're all the same. Yeah.

467
00:28:24.170 --> 00:28:27.089
So if you're not being a better person because of religion,

468
00:28:27.130 --> 00:28:28.750
that's on you.

469
00:28:29.170 --> 00:28:31.130
And to me, hating others.

470
00:28:31.849 --> 00:28:35.890
Fear, creating fear, that's not being a better person.

471
00:28:35.950 --> 00:28:37.009
That's another thing, too.

472
00:28:37.170 --> 00:28:41.730
Fear is a big thing that causes religious hate. I

473
00:28:42.450 --> 00:28:50.700
don't believe that God or Allah or any spiritual thing

474
00:28:50.740 --> 00:28:54.720
like that is based in fear, nor should it be.

475
00:28:56.339 --> 00:28:59.849
I don't want to be part of any religion... That

476
00:28:59.970 --> 00:29:03.309
makes me want to fear God. Like there's certain people

477
00:29:03.349 --> 00:29:06.990
that are like, fear God. Why should I fear God?

478
00:29:07.049 --> 00:29:08.750
Isn't God supposed to be loving?

479
00:29:09.329 --> 00:29:10.630
Yes, exactly.

480
00:29:11.609 --> 00:29:14.410
We should all love each other, not fear each other.

481
00:29:15.190 --> 00:29:20.970
And God should love all of their children. And no

482
00:29:20.990 --> 00:29:23.509
matter what it is. And I think so many people

483
00:29:23.990 --> 00:29:27.690
don't understand religion. And that's where the fear and hate

484
00:29:27.779 --> 00:29:28.359
comes in.

485
00:29:28.410 --> 00:29:28.799
Because.

486
00:29:29.190 --> 00:29:32.980
They just go by certain things, but they don't really

487
00:29:33.079 --> 00:29:35.819
understand it as a whole. Just like I said, in Judaism,

488
00:29:36.200 --> 00:29:39.869
we spend our whole life studying Torah, not believing it.

489
00:29:40.430 --> 00:29:45.019
You know, there's some people out there that teach people, oh,

490
00:29:45.450 --> 00:29:47.170
just believe it because I said so.

491
00:29:47.690 --> 00:29:49.140
No. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

492
00:29:49.640 --> 00:29:52.420
No, don't believe it because I said so. Find out

493
00:29:52.480 --> 00:29:53.259
for yourself.

494
00:29:53.759 --> 00:29:56.819
And I guarantee you, if you took the time to

495
00:29:57.019 --> 00:30:01.099
understand all the religions in the world, That you'll find

496
00:30:01.119 --> 00:30:03.200
the common ground instead of the hate.

497
00:30:04.660 --> 00:30:04.980
Yeah, yeah.

498
00:30:05.039 --> 00:30:08.039
I think what you said is really right. Because, yeah,

499
00:30:08.420 --> 00:30:11.119
we've been sold this. I think, yeah, we're not like

500
00:30:11.539 --> 00:30:16.720
learning it, educated ourselves into the something that probably people

501
00:30:16.779 --> 00:30:20.819
taught me. People taught us to that kind of religion.

502
00:30:21.460 --> 00:30:25.680
The religion itself is not wrong at all. It's really right.

503
00:30:26.289 --> 00:30:28.690
as you said before, it makes us into a better

504
00:30:28.789 --> 00:30:32.759
version of human beings, right? But the problem is you.

505
00:30:33.359 --> 00:30:37.180
You don't really pay attention, and then you don't really, like,

506
00:30:38.299 --> 00:30:42.619
make time for yourself to really study it. And then

507
00:30:42.660 --> 00:30:46.279
you just, like, because you're being taught, yeah, to probably

508
00:30:47.779 --> 00:30:52.210
with the leader, the leader of your religion, yeah, for me, like,

509
00:30:52.470 --> 00:30:56.049
probably Ustad in Islam, And then just being told that

510
00:30:56.069 --> 00:30:59.170
some kind of person. But indeed, we have to really

511
00:30:59.210 --> 00:31:02.990
study it to know better and understand it more. And

512
00:31:03.009 --> 00:31:06.740
then we can have our own decision, right? And then

513
00:31:07.500 --> 00:31:10.019
because if or do we get some kind of conclusion

514
00:31:10.079 --> 00:31:12.859
and then we just get some kind of point that, yeah,

515
00:31:13.140 --> 00:31:16.970
my faith, my religion asks me to do this. Because

516
00:31:17.009 --> 00:31:20.779
this is something that probably better for us to become

517
00:31:20.930 --> 00:31:23.819
for a better human being. And also this is something

518
00:31:23.839 --> 00:31:27.859
that people always telling us to do. And then that

519
00:31:27.900 --> 00:31:32.220
is something that also really right for us to do.

520
00:31:32.619 --> 00:31:37.359
And eventually our Prophet Muhammad also taught us to always

521
00:31:37.420 --> 00:31:42.170
be kind to other religion. That is something that our

522
00:31:42.250 --> 00:31:48.579
Prophet Muhammad is already taught. telling us centuries ago, like

523
00:31:48.680 --> 00:31:51.980
years before all of this, they always like to always

524
00:31:52.039 --> 00:31:56.420
like treat Jewish people nicely. He always taught us to

525
00:31:56.500 --> 00:32:01.259
always treat Christian people nicely. And then he just like

526
00:32:01.460 --> 00:32:07.289
always like give, you know, that story about the beggar

527
00:32:07.509 --> 00:32:12.369
that always like make him into someone that nice, Muhammad,

528
00:32:12.410 --> 00:32:15.759
but yeah, He always try to be nice again and again.

529
00:32:15.819 --> 00:32:18.980
So yeah, that's, I think basically the, the idea about

530
00:32:19.000 --> 00:32:22.599
the religion itself, it's, it has to really have to

531
00:32:22.640 --> 00:32:23.380
be better person.

532
00:32:23.420 --> 00:32:23.579
Yeah.

533
00:32:23.619 --> 00:32:26.930
Because the religion told you to do so. It's not,

534
00:32:27.390 --> 00:32:29.910
and it's not, if, if you're like, you're getting into

535
00:32:29.970 --> 00:32:32.430
the wrong direction and you are not doing a side

536
00:32:32.529 --> 00:32:35.789
of that direction, I think you've been wrong when you

537
00:32:36.049 --> 00:32:37.390
learn to it.

538
00:32:37.529 --> 00:32:37.849
So yeah.

539
00:32:38.950 --> 00:32:39.150
Yeah.

540
00:32:39.450 --> 00:32:44.960
And so, I love that we can have this conversation. And, like,

541
00:32:46.440 --> 00:32:51.960
so people can realize that we can just be friends.

542
00:32:52.359 --> 00:32:54.039
We don't have to be the same.

543
00:32:54.359 --> 00:32:54.619
Yes.

544
00:32:54.819 --> 00:32:55.589
You don't have to be.

545
00:32:56.049 --> 00:32:58.950
We have this thing nowadays that everybody has, in order

546
00:32:59.009 --> 00:33:00.990
for you to be a friend, you have to believe

547
00:33:01.049 --> 00:33:02.089
the exact same way.

548
00:33:02.589 --> 00:33:02.890
No.

549
00:33:04.089 --> 00:33:06.849
I learn way more from people different than me, than

550
00:33:06.910 --> 00:33:08.230
people the same as me.

551
00:33:08.569 --> 00:33:09.029
Mm-hmm.

552
00:33:09.339 --> 00:33:11.640
We don't have to be the same. And that's something

553
00:33:11.700 --> 00:33:14.960
I do learn in some other countries like your country,

554
00:33:15.099 --> 00:33:21.000
because even as an example, the hijab. OK, I don't

555
00:33:21.059 --> 00:33:24.279
know why there's people out there, especially in my country, that.

556
00:33:24.200 --> 00:33:28.710
Look at that as a problem. OK, like who cares?

557
00:33:29.730 --> 00:33:33.430
You know, I mean, stuff like that. So what? It's

558
00:33:33.470 --> 00:33:34.150
your belief.

559
00:33:34.599 --> 00:33:35.299
Yeah.

560
00:33:35.440 --> 00:33:38.359
How does it affect my life anyway, how you dress,

561
00:33:38.420 --> 00:33:39.720
how you do things?

562
00:33:40.240 --> 00:33:40.940
That's the point.

563
00:33:41.200 --> 00:33:42.059
That's the point.

564
00:33:42.140 --> 00:33:45.400
People worry way too much about things that don't affect

565
00:33:45.420 --> 00:33:49.829
their life in any way, shape, or form. And Jews

566
00:33:49.880 --> 00:33:54.329
aren't that much different because in Orthodox Judaism, the women

567
00:33:54.390 --> 00:33:56.609
are supposed to shave their heads and wear a wig.

568
00:33:56.670 --> 00:33:58.609
It's not much different of.

569
00:33:58.630 --> 00:34:00.529
A tradition or a belief.

570
00:34:00.849 --> 00:34:04.009
It's just a different variety of it, you know?

571
00:34:04.150 --> 00:34:07.869
Yeah, yes, exactly. Islam also has a different variety, yeah.

572
00:34:08.190 --> 00:34:11.230
Exactly, and that's what I learned being in countries like yours,

573
00:34:11.349 --> 00:34:15.449
countries like the Netherlands. It's like, you know, the Muslim people,

574
00:34:15.530 --> 00:34:19.320
the Muslim women can walk around peacefully in their hijab

575
00:34:19.409 --> 00:34:22.880
and nobody looks at it a certain way. Yet here

576
00:34:22.920 --> 00:34:27.840
in my country, unfortunately, there's like these people that will

577
00:34:27.860 --> 00:34:32.789
go and like, Take your hijab off. It's like, why?

578
00:34:32.809 --> 00:34:37.030
What do you care what they're doing? If they're not

579
00:34:37.090 --> 00:34:42.929
doing anything bad, it doesn't matter. So we just have,

580
00:34:43.280 --> 00:34:46.059
as you said in the beginning, respect each other, love

581
00:34:46.119 --> 00:34:51.559
each other, understand each other. And I'm sure you'll find

582
00:34:51.699 --> 00:34:55.619
out things are way different than what you've been taught

583
00:34:56.059 --> 00:35:00.079
because you've been taught fear and hate. And let's teach

584
00:35:00.440 --> 00:35:03.960
love and peace instead. That's the only way we're ever

585
00:35:04.059 --> 00:35:07.039
really going to get world peace, is stop letting the

586
00:35:07.320 --> 00:35:12.219
political leaders influence us and unite together. Now, on that note,

587
00:35:12.800 --> 00:35:14.949
there's a lot of things you do to help people.

588
00:35:15.469 --> 00:35:18.929
And you have a book and you have a website

589
00:35:18.969 --> 00:35:22.090
and you have things that really do help people. So

590
00:35:22.110 --> 00:35:24.050
I want you to talk a little bit about that,

591
00:35:24.130 --> 00:35:27.030
of what you do, how you help people, what your

592
00:35:27.110 --> 00:35:31.099
book is about, and... you know, how they can check

593
00:35:31.119 --> 00:35:35.780
you out online, in socials, and get your book.

594
00:35:36.849 --> 00:35:41.210
Yeah, okay. Thank you so much, Dean. So, basically, my

595
00:35:41.309 --> 00:35:46.230
book is non-fiction, yes. It's probably people can classify it

596
00:35:46.309 --> 00:35:49.929
into self-help book, but I think that it's less self-help.

597
00:35:50.030 --> 00:35:55.500
It's more like a reflective non-fiction book. Yeah, basically, it's

598
00:35:55.579 --> 00:35:59.610
telling us how we can build a good life. something

599
00:35:59.670 --> 00:36:03.219
that not looks impressive from the outside, but we feel

600
00:36:03.280 --> 00:36:05.940
it from the inside. That's basically the idea of the

601
00:36:06.000 --> 00:36:10.079
book itself. So yeah, that's basically, I talk about, there

602
00:36:10.119 --> 00:36:13.480
is more like a collection of my personal essay that

603
00:36:13.980 --> 00:36:16.820
two years that I do this. And then, yeah, I

604
00:36:16.900 --> 00:36:19.929
try to write it in my blog and then eventually

605
00:36:20.320 --> 00:36:24.150
it become 100 and it's become the book itself right now,

606
00:36:24.369 --> 00:36:27.449
Cheers for a Good Life. It's talking about how to

607
00:36:27.489 --> 00:36:33.300
build a good life And it's like draws from philosophy, psychology,

608
00:36:33.460 --> 00:36:37.659
and also timeless with them and also everyday even. So yeah,

609
00:36:37.719 --> 00:36:42.539
it's basically more like invitation to slow down, to take

610
00:36:42.639 --> 00:36:48.139
a look again to yourself, yeah? And then begin to assumption,

611
00:36:48.500 --> 00:36:52.280
questioning your assumption towards something that you experience or something

612
00:36:52.300 --> 00:36:55.949
that you witness. And I try to not preachy there. Yeah,

613
00:36:56.010 --> 00:36:59.590
I try to really like, some kind of cozy conversation

614
00:36:59.989 --> 00:37:03.449
with a friend that probably been there, done that. It's me.

615
00:37:03.809 --> 00:37:08.409
And also, I like to try to say it like this.

616
00:37:08.769 --> 00:37:14.880
It's part philosophy. It's part essentialism. It's part cozy conversation

617
00:37:15.300 --> 00:37:22.400
where Marcus Aurelius meets Gilmore Girls and TLC somehow makes

618
00:37:22.480 --> 00:37:25.099
a cameo. So that's a book. It's for you. I

619
00:37:25.139 --> 00:37:27.980
live in Indonesia and I'm hijabi like this. But, you know,

620
00:37:28.099 --> 00:37:32.900
I'm pretty like being engrossed to the idea of culture, too.

621
00:37:33.320 --> 00:37:37.449
It's not really different from you guys. I love movie.

622
00:37:37.809 --> 00:37:41.730
I love concert. I love music. OK, I love TLC.

623
00:37:41.769 --> 00:37:45.190
You know, that band from 90s that R & B

624
00:37:45.269 --> 00:37:47.780
things that I love. And also Gilmore Girls. So, yeah,

625
00:37:47.820 --> 00:37:50.539
basically we're the same again if we want to back.

626
00:37:50.920 --> 00:37:54.320
with the idea before that we're talking about, yeah. We're just,

627
00:37:54.500 --> 00:37:56.800
I just like you and you just like me. So yeah,

628
00:37:57.019 --> 00:37:59.820
we just like the same. So yeah, that's basically my

629
00:37:59.940 --> 00:38:02.730
book is, yeah. And on how to build a good

630
00:38:02.769 --> 00:38:04.869
life and also what does it mean to live a

631
00:38:04.909 --> 00:38:08.050
good life in this world? So yeah, that's my book.

632
00:38:08.130 --> 00:38:11.510
And yeah, I also do coaching too. Yeah. My area

633
00:38:11.590 --> 00:38:14.820
of expertise is more like gaining clarity. And by the

634
00:38:14.840 --> 00:38:17.889
end of the day, you will get a better decision and, Yeah.

635
00:38:18.269 --> 00:38:21.090
So if you want to get to know more about

636
00:38:21.250 --> 00:38:24.289
me and in my book, I have to mention it also. Yeah.

637
00:38:24.750 --> 00:38:27.380
I also like put some kind of my faith there.

638
00:38:27.440 --> 00:38:27.639
Yeah.

639
00:38:27.719 --> 00:38:31.780
It's like, because, and then it's not about, uh, exclusively,

640
00:38:31.840 --> 00:38:34.219
but I think it's tied up to the idea, to

641
00:38:34.260 --> 00:38:36.920
that idea that I want to, uh, you know, that

642
00:38:37.000 --> 00:38:40.050
I want to emphasize. So, yeah, it's not, it's not

643
00:38:40.090 --> 00:38:43.210
something that, uh, specifically Muslim. No, it's not something that

644
00:38:43.329 --> 00:38:45.809
I just want people to also have that some kind

645
00:38:45.829 --> 00:38:52.730
of paradigm of Islam. Yeah. that Islam is also teaching

646
00:38:52.869 --> 00:38:57.090
us something the same, like the other, probably either idea,

647
00:38:57.130 --> 00:39:00.309
timeless wisdom, and also philosophy, and also psychology. So that's,

648
00:39:00.429 --> 00:39:03.289
I think, the most important thing about my book too.

649
00:39:03.389 --> 00:39:06.760
I put my faith also there. But yeah, so that's

650
00:39:07.099 --> 00:39:10.719
my book and also my coaching practice. Basically, you can

651
00:39:10.800 --> 00:39:14.739
visit cheersforagoodlife.com. Thank you so much, Dean.

652
00:39:15.780 --> 00:39:18.159
Thank you so much for all that you do and

653
00:39:18.219 --> 00:39:24.630
how you help people and for being my amazing Muslim sister.

654
00:39:24.650 --> 00:39:26.269
Me as well.

655
00:39:26.309 --> 00:39:29.130
It's such an honor to be a Jewish fellow like you.

656
00:39:29.300 --> 00:39:33.400
I think that I also like gain some kind of

657
00:39:33.519 --> 00:39:36.500
point of view, yeah? That I do not like get

658
00:39:36.559 --> 00:39:39.940
it from the people that I do really know. So yeah,

659
00:39:40.059 --> 00:39:42.920
I think this is really insightful point to me too

660
00:39:42.960 --> 00:39:46.099
that I can more like, I think it's more like Yes,

661
00:39:46.280 --> 00:39:49.679
I think I already like, I have this already thinking

662
00:39:49.780 --> 00:39:52.539
about the Jewish people indeed. But yeah, what you said

663
00:39:52.619 --> 00:39:57.070
is really like making it more like strengthening my assumption

664
00:39:57.090 --> 00:39:59.170
and also my conclusion. So thank you so much.

665
00:40:00.190 --> 00:40:03.030
My pleasure. And thank you for being on the Adventures

666
00:40:03.090 --> 00:40:03.690
of Pipe Man.

667
00:40:05.309 --> 00:40:05.929
Thank you.

668
00:40:09.099 --> 00:40:13.260
Thank you for listening to the Adventures of Pipe Man.

669
00:40:14.019 --> 00:40:17.329
On W4CUI Radio.