Sept. 4, 2025

Pipeman Radio talks with THE JUDGE THE JUROR About HELICONIAN OPTIVISOR

Pipeman Radio talks with THE JUDGE THE JUROR About HELICONIAN OPTIVISOR
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"HELICONIAN OPTIVISOR" - THE JUDGE THE JUROR  

TJTJ‘s release plans for the EPs will be Fall 2025 “Primitive Minds”, early 2026 “Medieval Institutions”, and mid-2026 “Godlike Technologies”. Each release will build on the last, culminating in a sweeping narrative about societal collapse, technological alienation, and the search for meaning.  

In addition to unveiling the new single, The Judge The Juror will be hitting the road for an August tour in Alberta and BC with The Hallowed Catharsis & Plague Doctor.  

Their sound—described in five words as Psychedelic Progressive Techdeath—combines technical riffage, intricate drum grooves, and experimental synthesis to dazzle the mind.  

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WEBVTT

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Hey, you have done to censure.

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I'm for wow for you you oh.

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Your how you tell your lunch out? Saw you last

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shot a shy?

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This is the pipe Man here on the Adventures pipe

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Man W four C Y Radio, and I'm here with

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the next guest that the has some badass music that

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kind of kind of combines two of my personalities. Really yeah,

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and you're gonna find out about why. So let's welcome

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David from the Judge the juror.

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Hello, folks, where'd the executioner go? We decided early on

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to drop them?

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So now, oh yeah, I love it though.

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So the reason I said that is because when I

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when I saw what they call your genre, okay, and

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I hate genres because it just lumps artists into something.

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And it's like I almost do this thing when I

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go on tour and do interviews at festivals, like I

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have bands, tell me what would your genre be? Because

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it's pretty ridiculous nowadays, like the genres are so microscopic

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that one band could fit into it.

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It becomes like a funny but.

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Yours I read as psychedelic, progressive tech.

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Death nailed it.

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And you know, I'm somebody that is both a metal head, well,

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a metal head, a punk and hippie like dig psychedelic music.

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I dig metal, I dig punk, I dig all kinds

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of metal. I dig good musicianship. So your genre there

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just fits everything.

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That'll end.

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I'm glad to hear that.

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It's it's kind of like if Possessed in the Grateful

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Dead had a baby.

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Oh now that's that's a pretty high high.

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So thank you, right, you know, because I have somebody

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like back in the eighties. Yeah, ago on like Friday

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night to go see a Slayer show and on Saturday

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go to a Dead show.

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Hell yeah, love that, you know.

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Yeah, it's like fuck the gatekeeper shit too. Music is music.

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If you like music, you like music. I'm more of

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a metal head than most anybody there is. It doesn't

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mean I don't like other music.

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I could not agree more. We're very much like that.

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Like while we play in you know, kind of the

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tech death space with that, we're very influenced by a

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lot of other music that isn't metal, you know self,

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especially with like the kind of electronic psychedelic side like

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our our lead guitarists favorite band in the world is

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Dance Gavin Dance. Now I'm kind of like, yeah, like

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an emo alternative, you know, so very outside of what

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we do, but that influence has definitely come into the

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music as well. And I agree. I think like we're

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blessed in the metal genre also that you can make

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so many things metal, you know, yeah, it's it just

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works so well. So it's just like what can we

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just kind of throw together? And I love how you

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said about the genretization of metal because you hit it

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exactly on the head. So side deaf tech progue is

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a term that we made up nice and you hit

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it on the head exactly. Because originally the idea was

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like all this genretization, there's so much of it, right,

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and you go to a metal head man, you're like,

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oh you like that band? I also like death metal,

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and they're like, they're black and grind. So we thought

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it like, we should have a genre that's super hyper

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specific to help you. But but then it's also kind

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of like a tongue in cheek zab at that exact thing,

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you know. So I'm glad that you pick that up.

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I love it well.

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You know, what you just said reminds me because you know,

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I come from the days of the eighties or the

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gatekeeper bullshit. And I remember I was at a show.

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It was Venom, Slayer.

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And Exodus, oh sh.

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And Kronos got into a fistfight with Tom.

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Because he's like, you guys aren't black metal. We're black metal.

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It's like, come on, dude, Like, and in twenty twenty five,

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Venom wouldn't even be considered black metal.

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It's it's funny. I thought it was so.

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Like evil and dark and heavy and fast back then,

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and now I listen to him, I'm like, man, it

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sounds kind of poppy to me.

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It's amazing how things evolve right.

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Right totally, you know.

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And then, like I mentioned Possessed before, arguably the first

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death metal band ever, and I can say that they

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still stand up to most death metal today.

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Oh, I would agree too. I'm a big fan of

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a lot of the old school stuff too, and they're

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up there for me as.

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Well, totally. And you know, let's talk about the progressive part.

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To me, Rush has some metal songs, a lot of

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metal songs before they put the synth in.

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It holy toly agree.

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Yeah, Like I love Rush like to me, twenty one

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to twelve is one of the most metal fucking songs

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ever to me, like I remember lasting it through my guitar,

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ample bar and freaking headbanging to to Temples of Searings

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and shit.

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Hell yeah. I also love Rush though, and I agree

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it does have a more metal tinge to it than

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I think people realize, because.

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Most people don't know nowadays, don't know the old Rush

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like they know post Moving Pictures, and I'm not a

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big post Moving Pictures person.

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Like, yes, there was quite a.

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Away from them.

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You know, they're great artists, but like I like before that,

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like I love the first album, I love Carressive Steel,

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I love Permanent Waves and you know, yeah, like Moving Pictures.

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Everybody that you know is the the popular Rush fan. No,

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but I love all the shit before Moving Pictures man,

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Hell yeah. And you're Canadian, so like you would get

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to Canada if you didn't like Rush.

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Well exactly, we can't claim to be any sort of

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prog band and say we don't like Rush, so you

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would never catch me doing that. Don't worry.

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There you go, there you go, So tell me about

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I love the story of what you're doing, because I

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think you can even add to that genre that you

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made up and call yourselves like power psychedelic, progressive tech death.

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You got that whole concept thing going on, and that's.

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Quote unquote the power metal thing.

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Yeah, but I think concepts are great because listen to

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a song an album. To me, it's no different than

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a book and a chapter.

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Couldn't agree more with that either. Yeah, you're you're telling

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people something, whether you're thinking about it conceptually or just

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as a one off piece, right, You're you're conveying something

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to people through what you're doing musically. So absolutely so.

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I love how you have this whole thing of you

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already have everything set up. It's almost like the the

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the chapters are set up between these EPs that you're

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putting out, and so tell us a little bit about

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the story of how they're all connected and why this

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one goes now, this one goes then, and so forth

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for sure.

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So so the three EPs are based around actually a quote.

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The gentleman's name is, I believe it's Edward Oh Moro.

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I hope I didn't get that wrong. Edward Oh, I

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think Moro. I'll have to confirm that. I should know

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it off the top of my head. I know that anyway,

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he was quoted as saying it was in a discussion

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where they were kind of philosophizing about, you know, the

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modern state of us as humans and why we're kind

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of feeling like things around us sort of are coming

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to this weird crux that's a little bit scary, and

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he he chalked it up to there's a reason that

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humanity is sort of heading down this path, and he

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labeled it as three different, three different pieces of the

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human puzzle that we deal with right now that really

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don't kind of drive together when you think about it.

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And so what those are and the names of the

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EPs are going to be primitive minds. We have the

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basically the same brain we've had since we've you know,

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stepped out of caves. We have these medieval institutions the

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second EP name, so all these instanttions around us that

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still operate in these old ways that don't really serve

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us too well. And then the third one, the third EP,

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will be called godlike technology. Now we have these bones

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and everything in our pocket, and we have this level

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of technology that's unlike anything we've ever seen. Is a

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race and these three things kind of coming together. His

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theory is that this is causing a lot of human

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suffering right now. In our world, and I very much agree,

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I very relate to that. So that's kind of what

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we're trying to do with these EPs is so Primitive

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Minds is going to be this first one. That's what

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Heliconian Optiviser is going to be from, So it's going

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to be sort of a dive into some of our

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human primitive emotions and things like that that kind of

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can betray us in our modern world. Next, in the

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We're thinking Early you know, twenty twenty six, we'll be

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looking at medieval institutions and same kind of thing, will

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dive further into some of these ideas about what we

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think these institutions are, how we feel like they're negatively

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impacting it. And then eventually we'll do the godlike technology

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section as well, and we're kind of planning to encapsulate

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that whole idea, hopefully between all three of these songs

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and sorry, pardon me, all three of these EPs, and

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be able to kind of put them together in a

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sort of vision of that statement.

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So that's pretty cool.

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It's like it's kind of like when you have, you know,

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books and then the follow up book and then the

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follow up book, and you know, when you said the technology.

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Something really hit home for me because I am a techie,

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always have been. But I also know, like I'm a

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gen xer. I built this stupid shit we use now

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like right, and and just like you see in the movies,

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I'm kind of sorry that we did.

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You know.

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It's like I told my daughter one day.

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I was on the phone with my youngest daughter and

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I was like, you know, some days I just want

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to drive down the road and throw my laptop, my phone,

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and my iPad out the window and keep driving.

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She goes dead, Who are you kidding? You're just as

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addicted as everybody else.

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I'm like, yeah, you're right, except I lived in time

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when we didn't have any of it, and it was

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a better time, you know. I remember when I was

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learning programming languages to build all this technology, and the

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talk was always how it's going to make our life

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so much easier and blah blah blah blah blah bullshit.

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Because I'm here now in it. Life ain't easier. It's

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more stressful. This is why everybody has stress anxiety, because

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there is no off switch gone.

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It's like, just you know, like you can.

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I have clients that text me at three am, Like

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what happened to the day is when a business is

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and you couldn't get a hold of them at three am,

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you know, and it's like people just assume. Another thing

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really bugs me is people, especially the people that are

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not tech oriented, they assume that because we have this technology,

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you have to use it all and use it all

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at once, like zoom. I can't tell you how many

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times I've had appointments with somebody that would take like

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a thirty second phone call and they're like.

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Okay, well let me send you a zoom link.

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I'm like, it would take you longer to send the

223
00:13:30.120 --> 00:13:32.960
zoom link than to have the phone call just become

224
00:13:33.000 --> 00:13:37.759
to the phone call me okay, And then you know,

225
00:13:37.879 --> 00:13:40.960
there's so many things like that. It's like I have

226
00:13:41.279 --> 00:13:46.159
clients that will text me to let me know that

227
00:13:46.159 --> 00:13:49.519
they just emailed me, and then they'll Facebook message me

228
00:13:49.679 --> 00:13:52.159
to tell me that they text me that they emailed me.

229
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And I'm just like, listen, I use all the technology,

230
00:13:56.799 --> 00:13:59.919
I only need one. Okay, if you send me an email,

231
00:14:00.440 --> 00:14:03.840
I'll get a notification that email. I don't need a

232
00:14:03.960 --> 00:14:06.039
text to tell me you sent me an email. Like,

233
00:14:06.240 --> 00:14:07.679
what is the freaking point of that.

234
00:14:08.279 --> 00:14:10.000
Yeah, I agreed.

235
00:14:10.639 --> 00:14:13.080
I think that's the destruction in the world right there,

236
00:14:13.120 --> 00:14:15.320
we're talking, we talk about apocalypse.

237
00:14:15.679 --> 00:14:18.120
I think that's the pop apocalypse.

238
00:14:18.440 --> 00:14:20.919
We're like, all I look outside the window of my

239
00:14:21.039 --> 00:14:24.279
studio and I see people walking around on their phones

240
00:14:24.320 --> 00:14:27.759
like we're in the zombie apocalypse. Like I've literally watched

241
00:14:27.759 --> 00:14:31.000
somebody walk right into a cement pole because they're too

242
00:14:31.039 --> 00:14:32.039
busy on their phone.

243
00:14:32.559 --> 00:14:36.399
It's so true. We're so addicted to it, right And

244
00:14:36.399 --> 00:14:39.120
and I mean this circles back with this whole idea

245
00:14:39.120 --> 00:14:43.000
of these these three concepts together, right, This this technology

246
00:14:43.039 --> 00:14:46.039
and stuff with especially you know, the social media stuff

247
00:14:46.080 --> 00:14:47.519
is what a lot of people are addicted to their

248
00:14:47.519 --> 00:14:51.840
phones about. And these institutions we're kind of talking about,

249
00:14:52.399 --> 00:14:55.360
you know, they're they're setting these up to hit your

250
00:14:55.679 --> 00:14:58.879
primitive brain. They know exactly what they're doing doing this.

251
00:14:59.080 --> 00:15:02.360
They know that that stimulus is something in our brain

252
00:15:02.399 --> 00:15:05.399
that's still from our you know, days of being more

253
00:15:05.399 --> 00:15:08.279
animalistic and not a society like we are now, and

254
00:15:08.320 --> 00:15:10.960
they know how to hit it. And so that's exactly

255
00:15:11.759 --> 00:15:14.679
that's why I think again, these all tie together, right,

256
00:15:14.759 --> 00:15:19.639
It's it's yeah, it's all these combinations of what they're

257
00:15:19.639 --> 00:15:23.440
doing and nefarious purposes behind it. Even the ones that

258
00:15:23.519 --> 00:15:28.039
don't have necessarily a nefarious intent become nefarious, is what

259
00:15:28.080 --> 00:15:30.600
it's seeming like, you know. So it's just it's a

260
00:15:30.720 --> 00:15:34.600
very it's a bizarre time, you know. And like I'm

261
00:15:34.639 --> 00:15:37.519
an I'm an older millennial, right, I was born in

262
00:15:37.679 --> 00:15:40.440
eighty seven, so I at least too kind of had

263
00:15:40.440 --> 00:15:45.080
a little bit of the the gift of mostly technology

264
00:15:45.159 --> 00:15:48.919
free childhood. A lot of people my age kind of

265
00:15:48.919 --> 00:15:50.559
that was us. It was more when we were in

266
00:15:51.120 --> 00:15:53.639
like I remember kind of first really being on like

267
00:15:53.919 --> 00:15:58.679
a computer doing anything close what we do now MSN Messenger,

268
00:15:58.759 --> 00:16:02.279
like when I was in junior high, maybe maybe mid

269
00:16:02.480 --> 00:16:04.600
junior high, you know, so I still got to have

270
00:16:04.639 --> 00:16:08.200
that kind of childhood experience where we didn't have that.

271
00:16:09.039 --> 00:16:11.159
And I think about I see like kids today with it,

272
00:16:11.200 --> 00:16:15.440
and I can't even imagine what being a kid must

273
00:16:15.440 --> 00:16:19.559
be like in this day and age with with it's crazy,

274
00:16:19.840 --> 00:16:21.240
like totally just wild.

275
00:16:21.919 --> 00:16:24.639
Yeah, And you know, to your point, like my two

276
00:16:24.639 --> 00:16:29.960
older kids, they're born eighty five, eighty six, Oh yeah, okay,

277
00:16:30.159 --> 00:16:36.200
and I remember the day this happened. But so we

278
00:16:36.279 --> 00:16:41.039
had cell phones, but as a parent, you didn't limb

279
00:16:41.080 --> 00:16:43.919
have it all the time. They couldn't bring it to school,

280
00:16:44.159 --> 00:16:46.919
or they didn't have one. Like my kids were going

281
00:16:46.960 --> 00:16:50.840
to school and no, you can't have a cell phone. No. Yeah,

282
00:16:51.320 --> 00:16:54.039
like they didn't even have one. And then one day

283
00:16:54.080 --> 00:16:57.799
I remember so clearly dropping them off at school and

284
00:16:58.399 --> 00:17:01.159
it was like, out of nowhere, every kid cell phone.

285
00:17:01.159 --> 00:17:03.279
And now I'm like, oh, fuck, now I gotta buy

286
00:17:03.279 --> 00:17:05.200
my kids a cell phone because they can't be the

287
00:17:05.240 --> 00:17:07.759
only ones in school without a cell phone.

288
00:17:08.119 --> 00:17:09.599
Right, And that's part of it too.

289
00:17:10.440 --> 00:17:14.880
Right, you know, it's yeah, you got the pressure.

290
00:17:15.000 --> 00:17:18.640
And speaking of social media, same thing, Like social media

291
00:17:18.720 --> 00:17:23.440
is not social, it's anti social, attacking, bullying, everything that

292
00:17:23.599 --> 00:17:28.640
was the worst things about my childhood, it's now expanded

293
00:17:28.759 --> 00:17:32.319
because of social media. Like I can't even imagine what

294
00:17:32.400 --> 00:17:36.440
these kids have to go through. Because I had bullies

295
00:17:36.559 --> 00:17:39.640
that waited for me when I was walking home from school,

296
00:17:39.880 --> 00:17:41.559
I didn't have cyber bullies.

297
00:17:42.160 --> 00:17:46.359
That's like a whole nother realm right there.

298
00:17:47.160 --> 00:17:49.960
Yeah, it's and it's unbelievable how the depths people will

299
00:17:49.960 --> 00:17:52.279
go on online to do that kind of stuff. It's

300
00:17:52.279 --> 00:17:53.279
pretty upsetting.

301
00:17:53.960 --> 00:18:00.079
Yeah, I even okay, so like even now, the the

302
00:18:00.119 --> 00:18:03.519
idea of a president of the United States of America

303
00:18:03.640 --> 00:18:06.920
using social media to take jabs at people just blows

304
00:18:07.000 --> 00:18:07.519
my mind.

305
00:18:09.720 --> 00:18:11.200
It just blows my mind.

306
00:18:11.319 --> 00:18:14.000
I don't care who the president is, anybody that would

307
00:18:14.000 --> 00:18:17.319
do just that you could actually do. I don't even

308
00:18:17.359 --> 00:18:19.519
think they should be able to use social media for

309
00:18:19.599 --> 00:18:22.359
stuff like that in a sense that maybe that's old me,

310
00:18:22.519 --> 00:18:26.839
maybe that's me be an old fashioned, but like, come on, man,

311
00:18:27.240 --> 00:18:31.799
it's like you're bullying world leaders with your ex account.

312
00:18:32.480 --> 00:18:36.720
Yeah, and that part that we don't need, right It's

313
00:18:36.720 --> 00:18:40.880
like it'd be one thing if we as a species

314
00:18:40.920 --> 00:18:44.799
could be responsible with some of these things. But I

315
00:18:44.839 --> 00:18:47.519
don't think that, unfortunately, coming anytime soon.

316
00:18:47.599 --> 00:18:52.799
And so you know, yeah, I mean, what's next.

317
00:18:53.160 --> 00:18:55.480
Like listen, in the eighties, I was like, the machines

318
00:18:55.519 --> 00:18:58.559
are going to take over. Everything I remember from the

319
00:18:58.599 --> 00:19:01.119
seventies and the eighties that was sci fi is now

320
00:19:01.200 --> 00:19:04.759
real life or outdated. Like the idea of a flip

321
00:19:04.839 --> 00:19:08.599
phone is now outdated. And I remember watching Star Trek

322
00:19:08.640 --> 00:19:12.119
and going whoa, yeah, what it is or what we're

323
00:19:12.160 --> 00:19:15.640
doing right now is also from Star Trek. You know,

324
00:19:15.839 --> 00:19:18.319
it's like it's real life and you thought it was

325
00:19:18.799 --> 00:19:22.559
something that could never happen, you know. And then now

326
00:19:22.640 --> 00:19:27.279
you take movies like I Robot or other movies like that,

327
00:19:27.359 --> 00:19:30.000
and we're living that now with the whole AI thing,

328
00:19:30.240 --> 00:19:33.359
you know. Oh yeah, and here's one.

329
00:19:33.880 --> 00:19:34.480
How about this.

330
00:19:34.559 --> 00:19:36.039
I don't know if you ever thought of this, but

331
00:19:36.559 --> 00:19:39.920
I mean, have you ever seen the movie Demolition Man?

332
00:19:40.599 --> 00:19:43.400
Oh? I you know what's funny is I literally watched

333
00:19:43.440 --> 00:19:45.759
it two three days ago.

334
00:19:46.720 --> 00:19:49.200
Okay, tell me that's not COVID.

335
00:19:50.240 --> 00:19:53.480
Oh you know what I I literally kind of had

336
00:19:53.480 --> 00:19:57.240
that same thought of like, yeah, this kind of could

337
00:19:57.240 --> 00:20:02.519
have definitely could have been what society became, you know, right,

338
00:20:03.319 --> 00:20:04.440
it's quite wild.

339
00:20:04.680 --> 00:20:10.160
Think about no exchange, bodily fluids and like the idea

340
00:20:10.200 --> 00:20:13.680
of having sex the real way of put you know,

341
00:20:13.720 --> 00:20:17.119
and an electrog and I think there's a lot of

342
00:20:17.160 --> 00:20:21.119
times I do think that we are just being programmed

343
00:20:21.160 --> 00:20:26.039
for all this, you know, everything that happens, Like listen,

344
00:20:26.279 --> 00:20:29.880
I also gotta laugh at with the COVID thing. You

345
00:20:29.920 --> 00:20:34.559
know that people were spreading this saying, oh no, I'm

346
00:20:34.559 --> 00:20:39.000
not gonna get the shot because it's you know, they're

347
00:20:39.039 --> 00:20:40.960
going to inject the five G chip.

348
00:20:41.000 --> 00:20:44.599
But they're posting this on Facebook, and I would tell these.

349
00:20:44.519 --> 00:20:49.039
People, I'm like, dude, you are using a five G

350
00:20:49.599 --> 00:20:54.039
phone to post this. They don't need.

351
00:20:53.720 --> 00:20:54.759
To chip you.

352
00:20:54.759 --> 00:20:59.200
You are chipping yourself literally right right.

353
00:21:00.200 --> 00:21:04.359
It's like people don't some people don't get it. It's

354
00:21:04.440 --> 00:21:07.200
like even with the AI thing, Okay, so AI is

355
00:21:07.279 --> 00:21:09.880
really popular now, but guess who's training the AI?

356
00:21:10.359 --> 00:21:14.960
We are being being these companies.

357
00:21:14.400 --> 00:21:18.480
Have no costs involved in the research and development because

358
00:21:18.559 --> 00:21:19.640
we're it for free.

359
00:21:20.319 --> 00:21:25.519
Exactly. Yeah, right, it's it tested on the public. Is

360
00:21:25.599 --> 00:21:27.960
kind of what it feels like, right, no matter what

361
00:21:28.039 --> 00:21:34.359
the consequences of that are, socially or otherwise. And that's

362
00:21:34.359 --> 00:21:37.240
a scary. It is a scary kind of world to

363
00:21:37.279 --> 00:21:41.119
live in when you just see it so blatantly. You know,

364
00:21:41.359 --> 00:21:45.960
I think we all kind of know what you know,

365
00:21:46.319 --> 00:21:51.519
corporate and larger scale interests think about uh, the average person.

366
00:21:51.599 --> 00:21:54.039
But I feel like with some of this tech stuff,

367
00:21:54.039 --> 00:21:58.079
it's it's even more blatant than before. You know, you

368
00:21:58.160 --> 00:22:01.519
are our product. We have you, and we're gonna use

369
00:22:01.559 --> 00:22:05.039
you as said product. And that's it's it's a scary

370
00:22:05.039 --> 00:22:05.680
world to live in.

371
00:22:06.359 --> 00:22:09.920
Well, here's the problem. There's two problems. One is I

372
00:22:09.920 --> 00:22:13.039
tell this people all the time. Why do you think

373
00:22:13.039 --> 00:22:17.039
they give us this stuff for free like you think

374
00:22:17.200 --> 00:22:24.279
because right it isn't some altruistic thing. No, that's number one.

375
00:22:24.920 --> 00:22:30.240
Number two okay, so hmm. You take the smartest minds

376
00:22:30.279 --> 00:22:34.440
in the world. They're creating this technology. They can do

377
00:22:34.599 --> 00:22:36.880
things that you can't even imagine they can do. It's like,

378
00:22:36.960 --> 00:22:40.799
I remember you talk about, you know, my son in

379
00:22:40.839 --> 00:22:45.319
the beginning of the internet, you know, and he was

380
00:22:45.359 --> 00:22:48.880
on his computer, he was doing stuff. I'm like, listen,

381
00:22:49.559 --> 00:22:53.039
you need to be careful because people can get into

382
00:22:53.119 --> 00:22:56.039
your computer and steal your shit. He's like, you know,

383
00:22:56.119 --> 00:23:01.119
and typical of your generation and further general rations. You know,

384
00:23:01.200 --> 00:23:05.559
stuff just works. They don't realize like like that, yeah,

385
00:23:05.680 --> 00:23:09.680
actual programming behind this that makes it work. It doesn't

386
00:23:09.720 --> 00:23:12.839
just work. So I said to him, I'm like, hey,

387
00:23:13.279 --> 00:23:16.440
I said. He said to me, ah, come on, you

388
00:23:16.440 --> 00:23:19.160
know they get to oh really. And I called up

389
00:23:19.160 --> 00:23:21.279
a friend of mine and I'm like, hey, do me

390
00:23:21.319 --> 00:23:24.480
a favor. Can you go on my son's computer right

391
00:23:24.519 --> 00:23:27.559
now and start deleting files? And then all of a sudden,

392
00:23:29.279 --> 00:23:34.119
popping up deleted file, deleted. My son's asking me what's

393
00:23:34.160 --> 00:23:36.799
going on? Oh that thing you told me can't be done.

394
00:23:37.000 --> 00:23:39.319
It's being done right now. You just let me know

395
00:23:39.359 --> 00:23:40.759
when you want it to stop.

396
00:23:43.240 --> 00:23:47.160
That's amazing, right, you know that's.

397
00:23:46.960 --> 00:23:49.599
Really the way to teach your kids because like.

398
00:23:50.119 --> 00:23:53.000
Yeah, I mean, they don't get sometimes experience, right, You

399
00:23:53.039 --> 00:23:55.200
got to you gotta see that it's going to happen,

400
00:23:55.240 --> 00:23:57.119
because it's easy to be like, well, maybe it does,

401
00:23:57.160 --> 00:23:59.960
but not to me or or no. And then when you're.

402
00:24:01.000 --> 00:24:03.519
Old, you don't know what you're talking about.

403
00:24:04.039 --> 00:24:05.680
Yeah.

404
00:24:05.799 --> 00:24:08.599
I love it when you're like in your twenties and

405
00:24:08.640 --> 00:24:16.000
your kids call you old. That's that's something, right, It's

406
00:24:16.240 --> 00:24:19.400
it's why. But what's even wilder is like, Okay, I

407
00:24:19.440 --> 00:24:23.279
have grandkids now, and like they can they could do

408
00:24:23.319 --> 00:24:25.720
stuff their parents can't do on technology for.

409
00:24:25.720 --> 00:24:29.279
Sure, and with a question.

410
00:24:29.640 --> 00:24:33.359
And they have that same attitude and I kind of laugh,

411
00:24:33.559 --> 00:24:35.519
like they love me, and that's because I'm like the

412
00:24:35.599 --> 00:24:39.000
cool grandpa that brings them to mosh pits and and

413
00:24:39.079 --> 00:24:41.440
teaches them how to use this technology and stuff. And

414
00:24:41.480 --> 00:24:45.240
they're like and their parents are like, yeah, they're too old.

415
00:24:46.960 --> 00:24:50.880
My kids are too old for my grandkids.

416
00:24:50.920 --> 00:24:51.799
That's wild.

417
00:24:52.559 --> 00:24:57.240
It's just a it's a trip, man, And you know

418
00:24:57.720 --> 00:25:01.640
there's good and bad, like they're definitely is than bad totally.

419
00:25:01.920 --> 00:25:03.359
It's made my life easier.

420
00:25:03.400 --> 00:25:06.160
I think it's made it where I could do something

421
00:25:06.240 --> 00:25:08.720
like this instead of having to do an interview where

422
00:25:08.759 --> 00:25:12.119
you come into the studio or what have you. Yeah,

423
00:25:12.160 --> 00:25:16.680
that made it better. But the fact that you know,

424
00:25:16.799 --> 00:25:20.400
you see kids nowadays more and more have been mental illness,

425
00:25:20.519 --> 00:25:23.079
having anxiety, having panic attacks.

426
00:25:23.519 --> 00:25:23.960
Stress.

427
00:25:24.799 --> 00:25:28.119
Man, they got plenty of years for that crap.

428
00:25:28.599 --> 00:25:32.920
That's totally it, right. It's it's like we, yes, we

429
00:25:33.119 --> 00:25:36.559
definitely get some conveniences, some things that do make our

430
00:25:36.599 --> 00:25:39.039
lives easier from this stuff. But at some point where

431
00:25:39.519 --> 00:25:40.960
where it starts to come down to me is like

432
00:25:41.000 --> 00:25:42.960
at some point we kind of have to ask ourselves

433
00:25:43.000 --> 00:25:46.319
as a society like okay, sure, but what are we

434
00:25:46.359 --> 00:25:47.599
willing to give up for this?

435
00:25:48.640 --> 00:25:49.240
Yeah?

436
00:25:49.279 --> 00:25:51.559
And I don't think that's always part of the conversation.

437
00:25:51.759 --> 00:25:53.880
It's always oh, what's coming and what's coming. It's like,

438
00:25:53.920 --> 00:25:57.759
but where we're going with this, something else is going

439
00:25:57.839 --> 00:25:59.839
to have to give. It just can't become this and

440
00:26:00.000 --> 00:26:03.000
and everything stay the same, you know, So it's like,

441
00:26:03.920 --> 00:26:07.039
what are we willing to sacrifice here? And what's starting

442
00:26:07.039 --> 00:26:09.599
to get sacrificed, is like what scares me about people,

443
00:26:09.799 --> 00:26:11.119
you know, and where we're going.

444
00:26:11.640 --> 00:26:15.119
I think humanity is getting sacrificed because.

445
00:26:15.839 --> 00:26:20.279
This is exactly it, our humanity. That's exactly the perfect

446
00:26:20.319 --> 00:26:23.200
word for it, right, And I don't think we all

447
00:26:23.240 --> 00:26:24.839
necessarily can see it.

448
00:26:25.599 --> 00:26:28.359
You know, we don't see it because it's like anything

449
00:26:28.400 --> 00:26:30.000
else in life, when you're in the thick of it,

450
00:26:30.079 --> 00:26:30.759
you don't really know.

451
00:26:31.000 --> 00:26:32.160
It isn't until you look bad.

452
00:26:32.720 --> 00:26:35.400
And that's why when you're a kid and then you

453
00:26:35.480 --> 00:26:38.400
become a parent, you start to understand your parents, you

454
00:26:38.440 --> 00:26:41.519
know type of thing. And now I understand my dad

455
00:26:42.559 --> 00:26:46.400
in the respect of, you know, my forty year old

456
00:26:46.519 --> 00:26:50.480
son saying shit to me. I'm like, oh, now I

457
00:26:50.519 --> 00:26:53.039
get it. Now, I get how I was an idiot

458
00:26:53.039 --> 00:26:57.160
with my dad. And they think they all think, like,

459
00:26:57.279 --> 00:27:00.720
you don't understand things, you haven't lived their life for whatever.

460
00:27:01.400 --> 00:27:05.400
And I think of this, okay, with what we're talking about.

461
00:27:05.599 --> 00:27:10.599
People in my grandparents' generation were like, oh, life was

462
00:27:10.680 --> 00:27:14.000
better when we churned our own butter, when we did

463
00:27:14.039 --> 00:27:18.960
stuff like that, And You're like, you're insane. Why would

464
00:27:19.000 --> 00:27:20.920
I want to churn my own butter when I could

465
00:27:20.920 --> 00:27:23.319
go to a star buy and now all the sickness

466
00:27:23.400 --> 00:27:27.799
that we have physical and mental from all the garbage

467
00:27:27.839 --> 00:27:32.599
that we consume in our body, and really we have

468
00:27:32.799 --> 00:27:37.839
more stress doing it this so called easy way with

469
00:27:38.000 --> 00:27:42.160
food then the old times when it was very simple times, Hey,

470
00:27:42.319 --> 00:27:45.359
farm your farmland, churn your butter.

471
00:27:46.000 --> 00:27:47.240
But yeah, there was.

472
00:27:47.400 --> 00:27:53.519
Family stuff going on. There was also the passing of generations.

473
00:27:54.039 --> 00:27:58.039
You know. More and more nowadays, less kids are getting

474
00:27:58.079 --> 00:28:03.079
involved in a family business, you know, yeah, and less

475
00:28:03.240 --> 00:28:09.319
kids are having that you know, family mentality or care.

476
00:28:10.039 --> 00:28:10.240
You know.

477
00:28:11.920 --> 00:28:15.200
We take these social media things and use them to

478
00:28:15.200 --> 00:28:17.240
become antisocial, you know.

479
00:28:18.359 --> 00:28:21.519
Yeah, it's amazing how the things. You know, something is

480
00:28:21.599 --> 00:28:23.720
set up to be something and then it becomes the

481
00:28:23.759 --> 00:28:26.359
antithesis of what it was meant to be. That's it

482
00:28:27.000 --> 00:28:29.480
seems to be a common thread with us as people

483
00:28:29.559 --> 00:28:30.279
sometimes too.

484
00:28:30.799 --> 00:28:34.279
Yeah, look at TikTok Okay. During COVID, TikTok was the

485
00:28:34.319 --> 00:28:36.799
fun app. Everybody was getting off of Facebook as all

486
00:28:36.880 --> 00:28:39.519
emotion and getting on TikTok because it was just fun.

487
00:28:39.759 --> 00:28:44.359
And now TikTok is exactly what people ran away from,

488
00:28:44.400 --> 00:28:48.839
like the same negativity. And that's the thing all this

489
00:28:48.960 --> 00:28:52.880
technology has created way more negativity, not way more positivity.

490
00:28:53.559 --> 00:28:56.880
Yeah, And I sometimes think that that's the right. Like,

491
00:28:57.039 --> 00:29:00.200
you know, you're talking about the food analogy about how

492
00:29:00.480 --> 00:29:03.279
you know, we have it easier, but then now with

493
00:29:03.680 --> 00:29:05.839
getting food, but then you've traded all this stuff. I

494
00:29:05.880 --> 00:29:09.279
think that's the perfect analogy for this too. Right, It's

495
00:29:09.319 --> 00:29:13.839
like you are you are when we get when things

496
00:29:13.880 --> 00:29:17.559
get easier, maybe it's easier for us in terms of

497
00:29:17.599 --> 00:29:22.480
our existence and stuff, but I think as things get easier,

498
00:29:23.240 --> 00:29:26.759
we're having a harder time, you know, keeping our brains

499
00:29:27.039 --> 00:29:30.680
in a place that's reasonable. I think because things are

500
00:29:30.720 --> 00:29:34.279
so easy, then it's like, well, you know, I don't

501
00:29:34.359 --> 00:29:36.039
have to worry about my food, and I don't have

502
00:29:36.119 --> 00:29:38.880
to worry if I'm going to get clean water, if

503
00:29:38.880 --> 00:29:41.359
I have this and that I should go bitch at

504
00:29:41.359 --> 00:29:45.680
somebody on the internet, right, And yeah, I think that's

505
00:29:45.720 --> 00:29:48.519
part of it. Like we're very you know, we're very

506
00:29:48.559 --> 00:29:52.759
fortunate in like our in society here, we we have

507
00:29:52.880 --> 00:29:56.920
a lot, you know. And I think that exactly, Yeah,

508
00:29:57.000 --> 00:30:00.240
that thing when it's this internet, So it's what we

509
00:30:00.240 --> 00:30:02.240
were saying about the socialness of it, right, it's making

510
00:30:02.240 --> 00:30:05.799
it so easy to be social via these things. That's

511
00:30:06.039 --> 00:30:10.400
it's flipped into this anti social thing without kind of

512
00:30:10.480 --> 00:30:14.759
right before our eyes, right, yeah, and yeah, it's very

513
00:30:14.799 --> 00:30:19.079
fascinating how as we progress as a society and things

514
00:30:19.119 --> 00:30:22.200
do get easier, like you said, we find these new

515
00:30:22.240 --> 00:30:24.599
ways to be kind of self destructive is what it

516
00:30:24.599 --> 00:30:26.480
feels like, totally.

517
00:30:27.200 --> 00:30:29.519
And that's where music, to me, is one of the

518
00:30:29.559 --> 00:30:33.279
most important things out there, because music is the best

519
00:30:33.359 --> 00:30:37.039
therapy there is and it's the one that thing that

520
00:30:37.119 --> 00:30:40.279
binds us together, especially in the metal community. Okay, we're

521
00:30:40.319 --> 00:30:44.119
one big family. There are no outsiders, there's no hate,

522
00:30:44.240 --> 00:30:47.319
there's none of that crap, and you get to escape.

523
00:30:47.680 --> 00:30:50.799
That's why sometimes I just wish some of these people

524
00:30:50.839 --> 00:30:53.599
would just go experience a live show instead of filming

525
00:30:53.640 --> 00:30:55.599
the whole thing, Like come over.

526
00:30:56.119 --> 00:30:58.480
Watch it on YouTube. You're never even gonna watch it,

527
00:30:58.880 --> 00:31:02.680
like these people that feel never even watch it, Like, right,

528
00:31:02.839 --> 00:31:06.799
so you missed the whole show, the whole experience. For

529
00:31:06.880 --> 00:31:09.680
what there's time since media, like I have to do

530
00:31:09.720 --> 00:31:12.759
stuff like that. It's funny, like I'll take a picture

531
00:31:12.799 --> 00:31:15.240
and then I'll pull my camera down. I'm like, man,

532
00:31:15.279 --> 00:31:18.000
it looks so much cooler this way without the camera.

533
00:31:18.400 --> 00:31:22.000
Right, I always think that too. Anytime I like, you know,

534
00:31:22.079 --> 00:31:24.000
take a picture of one of our shows and stuff,

535
00:31:24.000 --> 00:31:26.680
I'm like the picture of Like, the picture looks cool,

536
00:31:26.680 --> 00:31:28.640
but I remember the moment, and that moment was way

537
00:31:28.680 --> 00:31:30.359
more fun than what this picture captures.

538
00:31:30.480 --> 00:31:30.680
You know.

539
00:31:31.119 --> 00:31:34.160
It's a nice reminder of it, but it doesn't It's

540
00:31:34.279 --> 00:31:36.799
it's not the same as a real spirit attack tile

541
00:31:36.880 --> 00:31:39.759
right in front of you. You're there getting blasted by

542
00:31:39.799 --> 00:31:42.680
the speaker and the singer sweat hits you in the face.

543
00:31:42.720 --> 00:31:46.000
It's just never going to be the same thing, right, I.

544
00:31:46.039 --> 00:31:47.920
Haven't think about Moshpitz. Okay.

545
00:31:47.960 --> 00:31:50.519
Back in the eighties, I'd go into Mashpitz, didn't worry

546
00:31:50.519 --> 00:31:54.359
about nothing. Now when I go into Moshpitz, it's like here,

547
00:31:54.480 --> 00:31:58.240
hold my phone, here hold this, you know, like and

548
00:31:58.279 --> 00:32:02.240
it's like, man, it's kind of a pain in the

549
00:32:02.279 --> 00:32:04.440
ass to go into marshpit now because I got all

550
00:32:04.440 --> 00:32:07.279
this shit I gotta worry about where Then it was

551
00:32:07.400 --> 00:32:09.559
just just jump in and not even think about it

552
00:32:09.640 --> 00:32:12.680
and go for it anything. You didn't break anything and

553
00:32:12.880 --> 00:32:16.480
lose anything, you know, you just had fun in the moment.

554
00:32:17.200 --> 00:32:20.319
Yeah, And you know, one thing that's nice with a

555
00:32:20.359 --> 00:32:25.359
lot of the shows we've been playing, I've definitely noticed

556
00:32:25.400 --> 00:32:32.119
there's way more uptic I see of kids, younger people,

557
00:32:32.200 --> 00:32:35.039
even adults and stuff. Depending on the shows, I'm noticing

558
00:32:35.079 --> 00:32:38.039
a lot more people getting in there and like doing

559
00:32:38.079 --> 00:32:41.000
their mosh thing and looking out for each other, but

560
00:32:41.119 --> 00:32:43.079
like having a good time, and I have kind of

561
00:32:43.799 --> 00:32:46.279
It's funny, I thought I felt the same kind of

562
00:32:46.319 --> 00:32:47.880
things for a long time, Like I go to these

563
00:32:47.880 --> 00:32:50.920
shows and no one's really that into it, or like

564
00:32:50.960 --> 00:32:55.200
they are, but they're not into like moving around and yeah,

565
00:32:55.240 --> 00:32:58.160
over the last couple of years, like especially around like

566
00:32:58.200 --> 00:33:00.960
Alberta here where we're from, and like we've been into

567
00:33:00.960 --> 00:33:04.640
Saskatchewan a little bit in BC, noticing way more people

568
00:33:04.640 --> 00:33:06.759
are coming out to these shows and getting right in there,

569
00:33:06.960 --> 00:33:09.000
and I like, I'm saying, I love to see it,

570
00:33:09.079 --> 00:33:11.960
Like that's music's expression at the end of the day,

571
00:33:12.400 --> 00:33:15.960
and getting out into the mosh pit and just flailing

572
00:33:16.200 --> 00:33:19.119
doing what you gotta do and with all the homies

573
00:33:19.160 --> 00:33:20.519
who are there to do the same thing. I mean,

574
00:33:20.599 --> 00:33:23.640
that's it's one of the most raw, purest forms of expression.

575
00:33:23.640 --> 00:33:26.200
I think you can get out there and it's super valuable,

576
00:33:26.240 --> 00:33:29.079
and I think there are people who are thankfully who

577
00:33:29.079 --> 00:33:30.640
are coming around and being like, no, I do want

578
00:33:30.640 --> 00:33:33.039
that real experience at this show. I'm not going to

579
00:33:33.119 --> 00:33:35.240
sit on my phone. I'm going to be mashing. I'm

580
00:33:35.240 --> 00:33:37.960
going to be interacting with the band and other people.

581
00:33:38.039 --> 00:33:40.839
And it's nice to see that that is at least

582
00:33:41.240 --> 00:33:44.440
starting to happen. Hopefully we'll continue.

583
00:33:44.079 --> 00:33:46.519
What I think is cool. Okay, So back in my

584
00:33:46.799 --> 00:33:50.160
gatekeeper days, okay, where it's like you could only mash

585
00:33:50.319 --> 00:33:54.480
this bla lah bullshit, mashing is some of the best

586
00:33:54.480 --> 00:33:58.759
therapy too. Like people think you go in people. Now, no,

587
00:33:59.039 --> 00:34:03.000
you don't hurt main people in the out the outside world,

588
00:34:03.079 --> 00:34:05.519
you know, like get all your ship out in the

589
00:34:05.559 --> 00:34:07.720
pit and then you don't want to kick somebody's ass

590
00:34:07.759 --> 00:34:11.800
in the real world totally. So like I've been to

591
00:34:12.000 --> 00:34:15.920
like a Whiz Khalifa show and there were mash bits,

592
00:34:16.519 --> 00:34:19.440
and if you caught me in my early days, I'd

593
00:34:19.480 --> 00:34:23.360
be like, now that's stupid. And now I'm like, now

594
00:34:23.440 --> 00:34:26.679
that's freaking cool, and you know what, go for it.

595
00:34:27.119 --> 00:34:27.400
You know.

596
00:34:29.079 --> 00:34:32.679
Genre youan mash, Yeah, freaking.

597
00:34:32.400 --> 00:34:37.280
Mash feel the music out and express yourself. Oh yeah,

598
00:34:37.400 --> 00:34:37.800
that's the.

599
00:34:37.760 --> 00:34:41.239
Move and that's what we need nowadays. That is our

600
00:34:41.400 --> 00:34:45.440
escape from all the bull crap in the world, especially

601
00:34:45.559 --> 00:34:49.480
music like yours. Like that's why I love about the

602
00:34:49.519 --> 00:34:55.639
psychedelic progressive part of the psychedelic progressive tech death because

603
00:34:55.639 --> 00:34:59.880
the psychedelic progressive part is the one that makes your

604
00:35:00.400 --> 00:35:01.920
drift away from everything.

605
00:35:02.519 --> 00:35:02.719
You know.

606
00:35:03.519 --> 00:35:11.039
I completely agree, you know, you know space, yes, for sure,

607
00:35:11.239 --> 00:35:13.320
and I mean that I'm I'm glad that it comes

608
00:35:13.360 --> 00:35:17.119
off that way. You know, like that's definitely where my

609
00:35:17.239 --> 00:35:20.239
mind sort of goes to too when working, especially in

610
00:35:20.280 --> 00:35:24.639
that psychedelic progressive space. You know, it's trying to trying

611
00:35:24.679 --> 00:35:27.079
to find something like especially for me with doing the

612
00:35:27.079 --> 00:35:30.119
synth and stuff like that, I really like stuff like

613
00:35:30.599 --> 00:35:34.440
sound and sound textures stuff to kind of like tickle

614
00:35:34.480 --> 00:35:36.840
my brain, you know. I want that little bit of

615
00:35:36.920 --> 00:35:40.719
like ooh ooh. So I'm glad that comes through because

616
00:35:40.719 --> 00:35:43.719
that's definitely kind of what we're trying to go for,

617
00:35:43.920 --> 00:35:46.079
something that kind of grabs you a little bit more

618
00:35:46.079 --> 00:35:47.760
and gives you a little bit extra to chew on.

619
00:35:47.880 --> 00:35:48.079
You know.

620
00:35:49.039 --> 00:35:51.079
Well, it's kind of like, okay, so you take Dark

621
00:35:51.079 --> 00:35:54.199
Side of the Moon. Nobody's gonna just listen to a

622
00:35:54.239 --> 00:35:56.199
couple of minutes of Dark side of the Moon. They're

623
00:35:56.199 --> 00:35:58.400
gonna let's say, dark side of Boon and they're gonna

624
00:35:58.400 --> 00:36:00.920
experience it and they're gonna go off into the never

625
00:36:01.039 --> 00:36:01.599
never Land.

626
00:36:03.119 --> 00:36:07.440
Yes, right, exactly. Yeah.

627
00:36:07.480 --> 00:36:10.719
I find that a lot with metal nowadays is there's

628
00:36:10.760 --> 00:36:13.679
a lot of the very specific genres that they use

629
00:36:13.719 --> 00:36:16.360
its formula and this is the way it needs to be,

630
00:36:17.519 --> 00:36:19.920
And I'm like, no, the way it needs to be

631
00:36:20.119 --> 00:36:23.199
is like I remember some of my favorite metal songs

632
00:36:24.559 --> 00:36:27.480
were like, holy shit, where did that come from? Like,

633
00:36:27.559 --> 00:36:30.599
all of a sudden in the miller's song, something happens

634
00:36:30.639 --> 00:36:33.199
and you're like, I didn't expect that at all.

635
00:36:33.760 --> 00:36:35.960
Or you go back to a lot.

636
00:36:35.840 --> 00:36:38.880
Of early metal where the intros would fool you like

637
00:36:39.000 --> 00:36:43.280
fast as a Shark and battery and like you're like,

638
00:36:43.320 --> 00:36:45.280
what the fuck is this and then all of a

639
00:36:45.320 --> 00:36:49.280
sudden you're like whoa you know, and it catches you

640
00:36:49.320 --> 00:36:52.000
by surprise. I don't think we have that much anymore.

641
00:36:52.039 --> 00:36:54.400
Like people are in this track track track mentality. They

642
00:36:54.400 --> 00:36:56.880
don't give that ten seconds to get into that.

643
00:36:57.519 --> 00:37:00.440
I could not agree more. And you know, for that's

644
00:37:00.599 --> 00:37:04.639
that's a really big thing too, like working in in

645
00:37:04.679 --> 00:37:07.039
that space that we do of of sort of you know,

646
00:37:07.079 --> 00:37:11.719
the technical death metal. There's a lot of exactly what

647
00:37:11.760 --> 00:37:13.760
you were just talking about out there in that space.

648
00:37:14.159 --> 00:37:17.119
There's a lot of talented people and like everything in

649
00:37:17.239 --> 00:37:20.360
it and totally but there's a lot of like I

650
00:37:20.440 --> 00:37:24.800
feel like the tech death and death coore space right

651
00:37:24.840 --> 00:37:27.679
now are kind of like this is what they are

652
00:37:28.760 --> 00:37:32.519
and I need to now do this. Yeah, and it's

653
00:37:32.519 --> 00:37:35.519
sort of like, uh, what the hell is happening here?

654
00:37:36.519 --> 00:37:39.119
Can we do something unique? And so we've kind of

655
00:37:39.800 --> 00:37:42.880
part in making that, you know, fake genre is part

656
00:37:42.880 --> 00:37:45.320
of being like what are the things that influence us

657
00:37:45.320 --> 00:37:47.079
and what can we draw from? And then how can

658
00:37:47.119 --> 00:37:49.400
we take anything outside of that and make it feel

659
00:37:49.400 --> 00:37:49.920
more metal?

660
00:37:51.039 --> 00:37:51.559
Right now?

661
00:37:51.920 --> 00:37:55.840
Even take tech as a word in and of itself,

662
00:37:56.840 --> 00:38:00.239
to me, it has two meanings. What meaning is you're

663
00:38:00.280 --> 00:38:05.360
a really good freaking musician, Like you're technically a great musician.

664
00:38:06.559 --> 00:38:09.840
It also tells me you're taking yourself way too seriously

665
00:38:09.880 --> 00:38:13.800
because some of the best bands in the world screwedle true.

666
00:38:13.559 --> 00:38:18.719
True, I completely agree with that too. You cannot in

667
00:38:18.760 --> 00:38:23.199
that space of like everything is I'm creating, you know,

668
00:38:23.360 --> 00:38:28.119
I'm creating this art and it's oh, like, yeah, you

669
00:38:28.199 --> 00:38:30.159
are and it's art and that's great and where but

670
00:38:30.239 --> 00:38:35.440
we also are are doing music and music's about good

671
00:38:35.480 --> 00:38:39.440
times and expression and feeling and feeling it. You know,

672
00:38:39.960 --> 00:38:41.960
we don't have to get into this up tidy space

673
00:38:42.000 --> 00:38:42.480
about it.

674
00:38:43.119 --> 00:38:45.880
Well, think about too, some of the most talent and

675
00:38:46.039 --> 00:38:51.480
most not talented but most well known musicians and well

676
00:38:51.519 --> 00:38:57.400
known bands were not the most talented necessarily exactly, I

677
00:38:57.440 --> 00:39:04.119
mean especially technically. Yes, one of my favorite bands, their

678
00:39:04.199 --> 00:39:06.960
drummer gets a lot of shit from every other MU

679
00:39:07.840 --> 00:39:09.960
musician on the face of the earth that he's like

680
00:39:10.039 --> 00:39:13.320
the worst drummer ever, but they're still the biggest band

681
00:39:13.360 --> 00:39:17.800
in the world. Like come on, that's kinda tell you so.

682
00:39:18.199 --> 00:39:23.559
Or look at yeah, like Ozzie was all heart, you know,

683
00:39:24.719 --> 00:39:26.320
that's what made the difference.

684
00:39:26.960 --> 00:39:29.639
And you just hit it right on the on the

685
00:39:29.679 --> 00:39:32.679
head for me, because this is something we talk about

686
00:39:32.719 --> 00:39:36.519
as a band too, and I think why why we

687
00:39:36.599 --> 00:39:38.440
have been able to make some more kind of unique

688
00:39:38.480 --> 00:39:43.000
sounding stuff and we're like I always try and push

689
00:39:43.039 --> 00:39:48.079
the guys in myself to just be like, be unapologetically

690
00:39:48.199 --> 00:39:53.519
authentic to who you are, because there you said it right,

691
00:39:53.599 --> 00:39:56.559
Like you can get these musicians who maybe they're not

692
00:39:56.880 --> 00:40:00.480
on paper the greatest musician you've ever heard, but they

693
00:40:01.519 --> 00:40:07.280
their authentic them comes through their instrument or their voice

694
00:40:07.400 --> 00:40:10.800
or whatever it is, and people go instantly, I am

695
00:40:10.880 --> 00:40:13.960
on board with this. It could be the most you know,

696
00:40:14.079 --> 00:40:18.159
on paper, worst singer, let's say, ever, but you know,

697
00:40:18.239 --> 00:40:23.559
if they if they hit that doleful authentic and they

698
00:40:24.119 --> 00:40:26.280
bring it out in a way that makes people feel

699
00:40:26.280 --> 00:40:31.039
that that's that's it, you know, And for us, like

700
00:40:31.119 --> 00:40:33.639
being in a you know, technical death metal band, that's

701
00:40:33.719 --> 00:40:36.079
kind of the the balance we're trying to go for.

702
00:40:36.280 --> 00:40:38.239
It's like, you know, we do want to write stuff

703
00:40:38.239 --> 00:40:41.440
that has musicality to it and be able to use

704
00:40:41.519 --> 00:40:44.440
that knowledge, but we also want it to feel like

705
00:40:44.599 --> 00:40:47.840
it's something that comes from us and wasn't just the like,

706
00:40:48.519 --> 00:40:53.639
oh I could switch this scale from mix alodianto blah

707
00:40:53.679 --> 00:40:57.000
blah blah blah ooh and people will be like yay.

708
00:40:57.679 --> 00:41:01.000
You know, like sometimes you hope, like music nerd people

709
00:41:01.079 --> 00:41:03.199
pick up that kind of stuff right of course, Like,

710
00:41:03.639 --> 00:41:05.000
but at the end of the day, it's like, I

711
00:41:05.039 --> 00:41:08.639
just want something that feels authentically like us and represents

712
00:41:08.840 --> 00:41:11.440
who we are to come out of us, because then

713
00:41:11.599 --> 00:41:13.159
the people who are going to resonate with it. Are

714
00:41:13.159 --> 00:41:15.920
the people you want to resonate with it, because.

715
00:41:15.639 --> 00:41:19.320
You're not going to please everybody in anything exactly, So

716
00:41:19.440 --> 00:41:22.119
the first person you need to please is yourself and

717
00:41:22.159 --> 00:41:23.960
then your tribe will follow.

718
00:41:24.519 --> 00:41:29.480
That is exactly, yes, one hundred percent. I'm a very

719
00:41:29.519 --> 00:41:33.159
firm believer of that. Like, and you know, circling back

720
00:41:33.159 --> 00:41:35.519
to what we were saying about, you know, things nowadays

721
00:41:35.360 --> 00:41:38.480
the easy way, I also kind of feel like, you know,

722
00:41:38.880 --> 00:41:42.159
we we could just shift into like a death core

723
00:41:42.880 --> 00:41:46.119
tech death band, and maybe it would be easier for

724
00:41:46.360 --> 00:41:49.960
more people to listen to us, maybe easier to play

725
00:41:50.000 --> 00:41:52.760
more shows, go on the road, But would we feel

726
00:41:52.760 --> 00:41:53.800
really good about it?

727
00:41:54.400 --> 00:41:56.239
Not really exactly.

728
00:41:56.880 --> 00:42:02.039
Yeah, look at musicians in time that really they weren't

729
00:42:02.079 --> 00:42:06.639
really happy with it, you know, And I think that's

730
00:42:06.679 --> 00:42:09.360
the saddest thing, because if you're not having fun being

731
00:42:09.400 --> 00:42:12.599
a musician, you're in the wrong industry because there ain't

732
00:42:12.840 --> 00:42:16.719
nothing else fun about it than that part, you know.

733
00:42:17.000 --> 00:42:20.559
Exactly. We're blessed in this industry that we get to

734
00:42:20.599 --> 00:42:24.440
do something that has that air of fun and joy

735
00:42:24.599 --> 00:42:27.840
in it, too, right, And yeah, we can't lose that

736
00:42:28.119 --> 00:42:31.159
because we're so lucky to have that as musicians and

737
00:42:31.199 --> 00:42:33.280
people in the music industry, like, not a lot of

738
00:42:33.280 --> 00:42:36.079
people get that with what they're doing, you know, and

739
00:42:36.079 --> 00:42:38.559
it's I think it's really important to stop and just

740
00:42:38.599 --> 00:42:42.800
be like, man, this is so cool. I'm so lucky

741
00:42:42.800 --> 00:42:45.480
to be doing this. It's amazing that people like this

742
00:42:45.639 --> 00:42:48.320
song or came to this show, and like, you know,

743
00:42:48.440 --> 00:42:50.800
you got to take those moments to stop and be like, wow,

744
00:42:50.920 --> 00:42:52.360
this is fun and that's a good thing.

745
00:42:53.599 --> 00:42:57.119
Well, even like when Rush changed course, a lot of

746
00:42:57.119 --> 00:43:00.760
people gave them crap, but at the end of in

747
00:43:00.840 --> 00:43:04.639
every interview I've ever seen or anything where they're talking

748
00:43:04.679 --> 00:43:08.599
about they just did what they wanted to do exactly,

749
00:43:09.320 --> 00:43:11.760
And to me, I'm the most.

750
00:43:11.480 --> 00:43:14.159
Respect for that totally.

751
00:43:13.760 --> 00:43:18.159
Because why not If you don't do what you want

752
00:43:18.199 --> 00:43:21.199
to do, don't be a musician. That's what it's about.

753
00:43:21.280 --> 00:43:25.400
I remember I was playing guitar. I tell his story

754
00:43:25.440 --> 00:43:27.920
because it's funny, you know. I was playing guitar as

755
00:43:27.960 --> 00:43:29.800
a teenager, and my dad's like.

756
00:43:30.800 --> 00:43:33.320
You should give that up, you suck. But he didn't

757
00:43:33.320 --> 00:43:34.280
know what I was doing.

758
00:43:34.800 --> 00:43:37.760
I was bored to death with the scales bullshit, So

759
00:43:37.840 --> 00:43:41.280
I just wanted to find out what sounds I could

760
00:43:41.320 --> 00:43:43.920
make out of the guitar, Like I wasn't trying to

761
00:43:43.920 --> 00:43:47.559
play something. I was trying to experiment to see what

762
00:43:47.719 --> 00:43:51.519
I can make happen. And that's how you become iconic.

763
00:43:51.679 --> 00:43:56.079
Like you take somebody like Tony Iomi. You know, he

764
00:43:56.239 --> 00:44:02.599
created a whole genre by experimenting over something bad that

765
00:44:02.760 --> 00:44:04.119
happened to him and.

766
00:44:04.239 --> 00:44:10.320
Switching gears exactly right. Yeah, the I think the experimentation

767
00:44:10.519 --> 00:44:13.239
thing is so important to not being afraid to just

768
00:44:13.320 --> 00:44:16.440
kind of try something out and throw some ideas at

769
00:44:16.480 --> 00:44:18.840
the wall and some of them, like you know, some

770
00:44:18.880 --> 00:44:20.320
of them aren't going to stick, but it's just the

771
00:44:20.400 --> 00:44:23.440
trying to throw them out there, you know. Like again,

772
00:44:23.599 --> 00:44:26.800
the playing it safe is is the easy way. Yeah,

773
00:44:26.920 --> 00:44:31.199
sometimes it's more than it. It pays off better to

774
00:44:31.239 --> 00:44:32.400
take a challenge, I think.

775
00:44:33.360 --> 00:44:38.559
And I think too, the whole Psychicaelic progressive part there

776
00:44:39.360 --> 00:44:45.639
is all experimentation. I view both those ronros as experimentation,

777
00:44:46.199 --> 00:44:52.679
like that's just there, like you're just creating this musical

778
00:44:52.880 --> 00:44:56.719
journey and a lot of times you don't even know

779
00:44:56.880 --> 00:45:00.480
where it's taking you as the musician. The song the post, oh.

780
00:45:00.599 --> 00:45:03.079
Okay, I gotta do this at this time and this

781
00:45:03.159 --> 00:45:04.039
at this time.

782
00:45:03.840 --> 00:45:08.880
And and it's so much more rewarding and exciting as

783
00:45:08.920 --> 00:45:11.639
a musician. I feel too to be able to do that,

784
00:45:11.920 --> 00:45:13.440
And like you said, even when you're on like that

785
00:45:13.559 --> 00:45:16.119
journey that you don't even totally know, Like, that's a

786
00:45:16.239 --> 00:45:18.159
very common thing when I sit down to like write

787
00:45:18.159 --> 00:45:21.119
a lot of our synth and stuff. You know, sometimes

788
00:45:21.119 --> 00:45:24.119
maybe I have an idea of something, but I always

789
00:45:24.599 --> 00:45:26.159
try to do that. I try to sit down an

790
00:45:26.199 --> 00:45:28.800
experiment and just see what kind of comes out, because

791
00:45:29.360 --> 00:45:31.119
you might all of a sudden hit something you're like, wow,

792
00:45:31.159 --> 00:45:33.280
I never thought I should. I mean, there's there's going

793
00:45:33.320 --> 00:45:36.079
to be a song on our EP on Primitive Minds

794
00:45:37.360 --> 00:45:39.719
that has this breakdown part with this one of my

795
00:45:39.719 --> 00:45:43.719
favorite synth parts on it, and it was a total

796
00:45:44.079 --> 00:45:46.679
saying exact thing. I'm sitting there kind of experimenting. I

797
00:45:46.719 --> 00:45:50.320
had these ideas, and I'm like, this is not kind

798
00:45:50.320 --> 00:45:55.559
of clicking where I want, you know, And I just

799
00:45:55.599 --> 00:45:57.800
sort of sat back and then this idea sort of

800
00:45:57.880 --> 00:45:59.760
hit me. I don't want to give away too much

801
00:45:59.760 --> 00:46:01.440
because the song's going to come out so people get

802
00:46:01.440 --> 00:46:03.360
to hear this, but this sort of idea hit me.

803
00:46:03.440 --> 00:46:06.119
And I went, that would be really weird if I

804
00:46:06.159 --> 00:46:10.280
could make this work. So I, you know, same thing,

805
00:46:10.320 --> 00:46:12.599
experiment around with it a little bit, and I remember

806
00:46:12.639 --> 00:46:16.440
sending it to the guys so nervously, right, I'm like, okay,

807
00:46:17.480 --> 00:46:19.880
here's a bit of a swing. Tell me what you

808
00:46:19.920 --> 00:46:24.440
guys think, honestly, right, And our guitar player, Scottie, all

809
00:46:24.480 --> 00:46:27.960
he messaged back was oh my god, I got chills,

810
00:46:28.599 --> 00:46:32.039
and that right there just went Okay, Yes, I have

811
00:46:32.119 --> 00:46:35.000
to lean into doing the stuff that's more out there

812
00:46:35.480 --> 00:46:38.840
and letting it happen, because that's where the money parts

813
00:46:38.880 --> 00:46:43.119
are going to come from, right, Just that letting something

814
00:46:43.159 --> 00:46:45.480
inside you come out that you don't necessarily know is there,

815
00:46:45.559 --> 00:46:47.760
and then all of a sudden go, whoa, that's it.

816
00:46:47.719 --> 00:46:50.679
It's it's beautiful. That's one of my favorite parts about writing.

817
00:46:50.800 --> 00:46:54.039
So that's where I think Sid Barrett was a genius

818
00:46:54.800 --> 00:46:59.480
because he just was like putting shit into songs.

819
00:46:59.320 --> 00:47:01.559
That yeah, no way would put into songs.

820
00:47:01.639 --> 00:47:04.159
It was like, and they just work, and just work

821
00:47:04.280 --> 00:47:04.840
so nicely.

822
00:47:05.119 --> 00:47:05.320
You know.

823
00:47:05.400 --> 00:47:08.840
That's always so amazing to me totally.

824
00:47:09.519 --> 00:47:13.079
So tell everybody how they can connect to you guys

825
00:47:13.079 --> 00:47:15.679
on socials and how they can get a new EPs

826
00:47:15.760 --> 00:47:19.159
when they drop and check out this new song that

827
00:47:19.199 --> 00:47:21.199
you didn't give them the intel on.

828
00:47:22.159 --> 00:47:25.920
Absolutely So the new song is entitled Heliconian Oup Devisor.

829
00:47:26.639 --> 00:47:28.559
It is going to be from our Primitive Minds EP,

830
00:47:28.719 --> 00:47:31.400
which you can expect this fall. We'll have a data

831
00:47:31.400 --> 00:47:34.119
announcement coming soon. So if you'd like to follow us,

832
00:47:34.159 --> 00:47:36.039
you know we're on the usual suspects. You can get

833
00:47:36.079 --> 00:47:39.599
us on Instagram at the Judge the Juror Official, Facebook

834
00:47:39.639 --> 00:47:43.239
at the Judge the Juror YouTube dot com, slash at

835
00:47:43.400 --> 00:47:46.360
the Judge the Juror Official. We also have a website

836
00:47:46.400 --> 00:47:48.920
which is just the Judge the jur dot com. It'll

837
00:47:48.960 --> 00:47:53.000
direct you to all our stuff there any other ones

838
00:47:53.039 --> 00:47:55.360
I'm missing? Oh, band camp, you can find us on there.

839
00:47:55.360 --> 00:47:58.400
If you'd like to purchase the new track, it's on

840
00:47:58.480 --> 00:48:00.800
there on band camp. What is it the Judge the

841
00:48:00.880 --> 00:48:02.880
jur dot bamcamp dot com. I believe?

842
00:48:03.920 --> 00:48:08.239
And yeah about how about MySpace? You know what?

843
00:48:08.559 --> 00:48:11.039
We should probably get back on my space. Someone once

844
00:48:11.079 --> 00:48:13.840
told me, actually that we said. Someone told me one

845
00:48:13.920 --> 00:48:15.880
time that the type of metal we do sounds like

846
00:48:15.920 --> 00:48:19.599
the MySpace era of metal and looking at them being

847
00:48:19.639 --> 00:48:23.199
like that makes sense because I basically grew up listening

848
00:48:23.239 --> 00:48:24.239
to metal on MySpace.

849
00:48:24.280 --> 00:48:26.599
So yeah, there you go, there you go.

850
00:48:26.880 --> 00:48:29.599
How fi you would it be if like music like

851
00:48:29.719 --> 00:48:31.960
bands start bringing back my space?

852
00:48:32.559 --> 00:48:34.440
We should do it. I think you're onto something here.

853
00:48:34.480 --> 00:48:36.639
I'm gonna go maybe go do some research on it tonight.

854
00:48:36.960 --> 00:48:39.119
Maybe I see if I can make them a sweet

855
00:48:39.119 --> 00:48:39.840
deal or something.

856
00:48:40.679 --> 00:48:43.480
Right, that would be so cool. But what's even cooler

857
00:48:43.599 --> 00:48:45.840
is your music. So everybody's got to check you out,

858
00:48:47.199 --> 00:48:51.280
and uh, it's definitely badass. And if you need to

859
00:48:51.480 --> 00:48:54.960
escape the world, this is the music to do it with.

860
00:48:55.719 --> 00:48:58.159
That's where we're hoping to provide people with a little

861
00:48:58.159 --> 00:49:01.960
reflection and a little escape all in one and some joy.

862
00:49:02.079 --> 00:49:04.360
So thank you so much. Thank you to everybody who

863
00:49:04.400 --> 00:49:06.119
goes and listens to it and has. So far, we've

864
00:49:06.119 --> 00:49:08.079
been getting a lot of really good response, so thank

865
00:49:08.119 --> 00:49:08.800
you all so much.

866
00:49:09.800 --> 00:49:13.039
Well, thank you for giving us great music, and thanks

867
00:49:13.079 --> 00:49:14.800
for being on the Adventures of pipe Man.

868
00:49:15.480 --> 00:49:17.280
Oh I'm more than happy to be here. Pipe Man.

869
00:49:17.280 --> 00:49:18.920
Thank you so much. It was an absolute pleasure of

870
00:49:18.960 --> 00:49:21.519
meeting here, and thanks for taking the time yourself. So

871
00:49:21.679 --> 00:49:22.760
hopefully we'll get to do it again.

872
00:49:24.280 --> 00:49:26.159
Absolutely, I'm looking forward to it.

873
00:49:27.000 --> 00:49:28.159
Likewise, my friend, take care.

874
00:49:28.239 --> 00:49:31.840
Thank you so much, Thank you for listening to the

875
00:49:32.079 --> 00:49:37.840
adventures of pipe Man. I'm w for CUI Radio.