PipemanRadio Interviews Jake of Citizen Soldier at Welcome to Rockville 2024

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Hey, you have done too.
That's true for see Wow, for young

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will Why Up America, It's time
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times had off. Now the home feels

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hollow. Try to run the A
team. It's til feels like, come

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on, it's fun. Where will
he luck Bottom? Somebody that will be

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no bad us? And I'm getting
close to school inside not turn out of

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todders. Where will here rock Bottles? It is the pipe Man here on

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the Avengers of Pipe Man W four
C Y Radio at Welcome to Rockville,

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and I'm here with Jake from Citizen
Soldier. Nice. I want to start

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off right off the bat is.
I loved the story behind you and this

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music project. Can you tell us
what happened from the very beginning to start

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this? Yeah, man, I
think I think it resonates with people because

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I don't care about being famous and
that nice Like people can hear that and

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think it sounds cliche or roll their
eyes, but it's the honest truth.

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I I eight years ago, I
was in a psychiatric hospital and really struggling

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to define reasons to continue on with
life. And I ended up deciding that

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I wanted to do a four song
EP, just a musical project, as

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just a way to kind of process
what I went through and you know,

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get that out into the world and
move on with my life. That was

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really the plan, you know,
was to move forward and get back to

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my normal job and be done.
And we put out the songs, and

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you know, the songs talked about
suicide prevention and struggles with depression and anxiety

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and grief, and the response to
them was so overwhelmingly positive that we're just

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like, I guess we gotta play
one show and we'll put out maybe one

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more record, a full record,
And then I just got kind of sucked

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into it. And you know,
eight years later, I'm a practicing trauma

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therapist. I went to grad school
and finished up my degree, and so

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now it's like I'm on the other
side of it, you know, and

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I'm getting to see clients and therapy
and play these festivals. And we just

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were finishing our sold out headlining tour
tomorrow, which is unreal. We're doing

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like six hundred to twelve hundred cap
rooms. It's been wild. It's been

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so cool. I love hearing that
story because and that's why I wanted to

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bring it up, because I think
it Number one, it gives hope to

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anybody, like you never know,
sometimes the best things in your life come

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from the darkest places that you get
to, you know. And then the

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other thing is it is Mental Health
Awareness month, right, and I've been

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talking about all month on my live
show that music is the best therapy in

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my opinion. Okay, for you
as the artist, it's cathartic to you

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know, get everything out in a
song. And for us the listener,

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we can relate to it or put
our own meaning to it, and it

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helps us. It helps us when
we go to places like Welcome to rock

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Pille, where we can escape from
everything in the world, even for just

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a little while in some friends,
family and music. Yeah. Man,

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it's cool and it's sad. It's
cool because it's fun to hang out with

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people and enjoy this music. But
it's also like, the more I do

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this, the more I'm like,
this is evidence of how much people are

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hurting, Like they need this so
badly. You know, people feel so

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trapped by their lives at times,
you know, Inflation's crazy everything's expensive.

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People are struggling to just get by, and so it's like, you're right,

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this is like an escape. It's
like they get to live a different

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life for a day, right,
And I think music provides that on like

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a mini level every day, whether
it's like screaming a song in the car

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on the way home or listening to
something when you're having a rough day.

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I think, you know, music
does that for a lot of people.

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Yeah, And I feel like when
we had that whole lockdown period and no

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live music, I think that's one
of the big reasons because we had no

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live music that people were angry,
depressed, and all this stuff. Like,

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of course, the lockdown in and
of itself, but then you combine

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no outlet and so you as a
therapist, now, how do you view

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that statement of what I just said. I think that you know, something

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very common that I see in therapy
and people shut down. First thing I'll

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say is let's get out of here. Let's walk around the building a few

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times. You know, it's so
simple, and people roll their eyes and

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get frustrated with simple solutions, right, But you know, it's amazing how

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it's just like change of environment,
getting out of that room. Letting your

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brain see that there's more to life
than the four walls you're you're trapped in.

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It can be pretty therapeutic. And
I think for people to be locked

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inside and connecting with a screen and
getting attached to that more than real human

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beings is really problematic. I think
that that's why you're seeing such a you

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know, surge of people flocking to
shows right now, is because they missed

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that real connection so much. And
you know, you see it with youth.

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I see it as a as a
clinician. You know, rates of

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suicide and self harm and anxiety are
off the charts for young people. Yeah,

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because they don't know how to connect
anymore. They're so afraid, and

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you know they're not happy isolated,
but there's comfort in that. You know,

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there's comfort and they feel safe in
that isolation. And so you know,

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getting kids outside, getting people to
go do things with each other and

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connect and get that sunlight is so
important. Yeah, no doubt, and

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a lot of people, you know, I need help, but they don't

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really have an example to follow.
So my question to you is what happened

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when you were in that hospital that
you think started the turnaround of your life.

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I can't pretend like that moment a
switch flipped. I tell my fans

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ask about this, and I'm like, it's that change is still happening.

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It's still a work in progress.
It's so gradual. I wasn't like I'm

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gonna take this message and go be
a rock star, Like it'd be so

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insincere and corny if that were the
case, right. I still struggle to

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believe that I deserve to be here
and that this is real, you know,

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because of the imposter syndrome and in
my own personal struggles with depression.

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But I think that it's little moments
along the way that encourage you to keep

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going. And I think that's like
the most important thing I can do with

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people who are struggling. Like bands
talk about depression and mental illness, but

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I think there's a need in the
scene for professionals to get feedback on places

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and processes to actually get help that's
evidence based and professional. Right. So

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I tell fans like, hey,
if you're looking for a therapist, here's

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some things that I suggest, and
here are some pitfalls I want to encourage

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you to avoid, because guess what
you're going to see A crappy one you

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might see three to five crappy ones
before you find a good one. Here's

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how you handle that discouragement. Here's
how you make sure you stay resilient because

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so many people will try to see
one bad experience, quit they're done,

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and never do it. Yeah,
and never do it again. But it

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took me like seven to eight therapists
to find a good fit for me,

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And so I think the education on
how to be an effective therapy client,

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how to fire your therapist, like
what criteria you should look for, Like

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those things are so important because therapy
works. People just get so discouraged with

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the system. It's like somebody taking
the first two pills of an antibiotic in

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quitting. Everyone will be sick and
no one will get better. Right.

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It requires a lot of tenacity and
staying engaged. And you know, it's

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like that graphic you see of that
miner who's digging and he gets tired and

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turns around and the gold is like
an inch away. Yeah, you know,

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it's like you don't want to be
that person, right, And so's

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that's my perspective. I'massionate about that. It's so funny because I talk about

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that. What you just explain all
the time. That's all. Yeah,

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absolutely, man, because I run
multiple radio stations of the whole Crapla shows,

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and I tell people, man,
you got to stay long enough to

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make it to a finish line.
And I use that e Zack cartoon as

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an example of what happens when you
stop short of the finish. I love

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that graphic, right, It's great
because it's just like, it has nothing

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to do with talent or ability.
It's just staying, like, keep showing

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up those That's my favorite thing to
say is show up, show up,

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show up. And you know it's
the Thomas Edison thing. It's like,

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Okay, I just figured out one
more way to not do this. I'm

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learning more about what I don't like
in a therapist. And when you find

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someone you like, you know,
you become such a valuable asset to the

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world in so many ways because you're
educating your friends and family on it,

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because you're like so excited that you
finally found something that works, and you're

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encouraging other people. And the culture
around mental health is shifting and it's not

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just like, oh, you had
a bad experience with therapy. Oh okay,

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I'm sorry. I never go back
again. It's like, no,

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you know, we need to encourage
people to be resilient and you know,

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not take one failure as a you
know, I'm just gonna throw in the

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talent quit. Yeah, no doubt. And as a therapist, do you

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find that your client because you went
through you went through what you went through,

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maybe listen to you a little more
because you've walked in their shoes,

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maybe in a similar way, not
the same way. Maybe I try to

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have two ears in one mouth.
Yeah. I think therapists, A lot

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of therapists I work with, I
there are so many therapists that are more

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informed in the different modalities and like
textbook wise, they mop the floor with

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me, right, that stuff matters, and I try to be competent when

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it comes to those things. But
I think my strength is I don't try

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to jump over to the fix it
portion too quickly. A lot of therapists

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go there so fast because it's about
them. It's about I need to fix

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this client so I can feel better
about myself as a therapist and feel like

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I'm doing the good work. My
approach is I need four to six sessions

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of just like being the most curious
person in the world about this person,

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I want to learn everything about them. Like when people see that you want

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to know everything about them and the
details of their life matters, and you're

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asking follow up questions to deepen your
understanding, Like you're probably going to be

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the first person who's ever done that
for that person. Because we go to

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the grocery store, we say,
hey, how are you, and we

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just want to hear good, okay, good see ya bye. Right,

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you don't want to hear well,
actually, I'm struggling. My husband's suicidal.

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I'm struggling with self harm. It's
like, no, I just want

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to get my corn flakes. Leave
me alone, right, I'm just gonna

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move on with my day. So
people don't want to hear the ugly truth.

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So when you show a lot of
interest in their ugly truth, they

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their trust is just like locked in
and the you're the only one probably yeah,

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oh absolutely. And then once you're
there, then you can start taking

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some risks and pushing some buttons and
challenging them. Well, they're not going

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to trust you till that point anyway, so they may not implement what could

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be very helpful actions because they're not
convinced that it's gonna help them one hundred

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percent. So you wrote a song
while you were in the psychiatric hospital,

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right was the lyrics? Yeah?
So you know what I think is cool

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about that is I think that's probably
the most open and vulnerable you can ever

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be to write a song. And
another example of that that I think of

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right off the bat. One song
that I think is my favorite lyrics of

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all time that I totally relate to
in a lot of ways was can is

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can You Feel My Heart? Which
Ali wrote in rehab and you know,

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and you know that song, you
know this, you know, and it's

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like one line in there I think
is my favorite lyric ever in history because

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it's so powerful, and that is
I can't drown my demons. They know

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how to swim, right, And
I think that is so profound. I

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don't think everybody gets it the way
I get it, but I get it.

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What's your opinion on stuff like that? I mean, I can tell

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you my impression to that. When
I hear that, that sounds like a

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cry for help from someone who feels
like they have tried everything. Mm hm.

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And you know, like if it
were easy to change this, I

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would have done it by now.
You know, you look at me and

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say that I need to step out
of this or change or get myself help,

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you know, And you don't know
how many different things I've tried.

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You know. It's looking at your
challenges and your problems and feeling like it's

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an impossible hurdle that you'll never be
able to get over. That's what I

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hear. I hear that, you
know, just this surrender to the idea

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that I feel completely overwhelmed by the
task of you know, trying to approach

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and change. This as a great
perspective on it. And it's so true

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too. And the thing is,
I think a lot of people don't understand.

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I'm glad you brought that and that
part up, because when you're somebody

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that's not going through what they're going
through and you're like telling them, like,

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just take it off, just do
this, just do that, you

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know, don't you think they want
to do that? They want to do

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that. It's like people think that
these people don't want to get better and

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that they don't try anything. Yeah, that's something that's super problematic, is

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you see a lot of that compassion
fatigue is real, and I think people

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in that place, instead of getting
themselves help lash out and say things like

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you like being sick, you like
being depressed, you're addicted to and like

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that happens. Like some people have
maladaptive coping skills and they get attached to

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them, right, But you're not
the person to tell them that. Maybe

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a mental health professional that's been working
with someone for months and months and months

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can be like, hey, I
notice you have a habit of doing this.

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What's the payoff? It's not a
bad character traite, It doesn't say

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anything about you, but like,
you know, we all have bad habits

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because there's a payoff. Yeah,
we use drugs. We turn to addictions

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because they give us comfort that we
can't find anywhere else. So, you

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know, being being open and honest
about that is hard. But you know,

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I think people like being right and
they like thinking they have the answer,

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and so we overstep and tell people, you know, things that maybe

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it's not our place to make those
statements because they're big statements and they can

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do a lot of harm. Yeah, totally. So how do people reach

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out to you? On socials?
On the We're everywhere man? The question

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is how can they escape us?
We're on we have a huge TikTok following

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almost a million followers on TikTok,
a million months with listeners on Spotify.

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We got Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, YouTube. We're very into reels and

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short form content. We like to
tease a lot of songs and get feedback

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on ideas, so we're everywhere citizen
Soldier. You can search it anywhere.

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You can see my ugly bald mug, and you're good to go. What's

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your favorite TikTok you've done. I
did a TikTok that was about the first

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producer we worked with telling me that
I was too fat to make it in

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rock and Wow. How the songs
called thank you for Hating Me, And

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it's just about how the people who
you know make you feel worthless can really

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become fuel and motivate you into awesome, awesome things. So I love that

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that went viral. We got like
three million hits on it. It's our

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biggest song. It's it's awesome.
I love that. One of the things

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I love about it is Okay,
Mike Tyson, He's gonna be fighting here

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shortly. Yeah, it's been a
lot of promo, but he keeps being

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real lately and he's talking about stuff
exactly like that, Like he talks about

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fear like I've always done, but
he's being very vocal about that. He

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has always been extremely fearful going into
a fight, and Customatto taught him to

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use that fear to knock people out
instead of to get instead of getting knocked

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out, and that's why he would
go in so brutal like that, because

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that was the fear fueling him,
not because he was some brutal person.

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So I love that you said that. That's great, And is there anything

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else you want to tell people about
your music or anything else that we haven't

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covered already. No, if you're
passionate about mental health or you feel like

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you you just need a new band
in your life. It is unique and

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different and not like something you've heard
before, go give us a shot.

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I think we have that. We're
kind of weird. We're like the red

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headed step child of active rock.
You know, we're still trying to prove

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that we belong. But go check
it out and let us know what you

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think. Well, you definitely belong
and I love the concept of everything you're

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all about. And thank god we
got people like you and music. Thank

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you, man, I appreciate that, and my guys, thank you for

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being here and welcome to Rockville,
and thank you for being on the Adventures

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of pipe Man. Thanks, thank
you for listening to the Adventures of pipe

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Man. I'm W for CUI Radio.