The 25th Anniversary Re-Issue of Borders & Boundaries With Chris of Less Than Jake

0:04 Hi, you have done to censure for see wow for you young. We run across that bridge all did wait up to Wavers city lights on the lots for killing time on those funny sides. This is pipe Man here on the Adventures pipe Man W four c Y Radio. And I'm very excited about our next guest. Who oh my god, like time just flies. They have an album called Borders and Boundaries. It's fricking twenty five years old. That that blows my mind. I don't even think I'm over twenty five years old. But let's welcome to the show. Chris from Lesson Jake, how are you?

0:54 I'm fantastic. How are you? You know? You said that like shockingly, you can't believe how much times past right when you looked at my face. So I was. Like like that son of a bitch, I know right right, listen. It is wild how quick time goes, isn't it. Like I sit there and I think about twenty five years. I'm like, wait a minute, that's like my whole life, and I'm like, oh wait, it's not. Yeah. You know, when when I was a kid, I would notice all my elders, you know, people in their late forties, early fifties elders, right, I would notice them just kind of checking out and not giving a damn about anything. You're like, God, they're just so apathetic. You just stop caring. When you get older, you realize, man, I'm on the back nine here, Like I can't worry about all this you know, support for us, stuff that I've been worrying about my whole life, stupid stuff.

1:51 I figured out the actual reason and solution for that. Actually, yeah, because you know, like people call it midlife crisis. First of all, not everything has to be a crisis. But I figured out what it really is. It's not mid life crisis. It's like you have teenage you who is anti authority, anti your parents, anti everything except your friends. Those are the people you need to impress, is your friends and your peers. And then you become an adult, you know, a young adult, and then now it switches because you know, everybody's calling you kid because and you're like, I'm not a kid. So you start, like, you know, you become this other part of you, which is adult you that does the opposite. It's like you want to impress, and people want to impress their bosses or they want colleagues or they do sometimes while I'm impressed authority. And then once you hit like over that forty age, you're like, you don't have to prove shit to anybody anymore, and you can finally just be you, and you kind of I think it's a combination of that teenage adult you that you finally find the real you.

3:07 Yeah, you know, I mean I kind of think that that springs off what I was saying. I just think that, yeah, you get to the point where either you find the real you or you go down a path that's just destructive and dark, and you go through all that. You know, and we've all had our moments, but you know, I don't think I've ever had a midlife crisis so to speak. That's been a bad thing. I just, you know, you just stop doing things that no longer serve. You, no doubt. I think of it more like it was a teen life crisis, because like, I'm thankful that I didn't, you know, go down another traductory and all the stupid shit I did when I was a teenager. But man, I love that you have the special twenty fifth anniversary reissue, So tell us more about it, and like why people should get this cool, you know, reissue of what amazing album.

4:00 Yeah, well, you know, we were going to print the record up for the anniversary so we could print the last reissue that we did or I was like, there's got to be extra stuff I know we have, So we went and the archives we all did, and look for extra demos and things that we've never shared before. So that that's what makes it on this re release. I don't think we're going to be able to do that again. I don't think there's any other unreleased tracks at this point. I think this is like maybe the third time we've done this. I know Fat Records had done a reissue at one point, so again we would oppressed the record and celebrate at the twenty fifth anniversary either way, but we thought we would at least repackage it for the collectors and you know, put some extra extra stuff on there. Yeah.

4:43 So as far as the songs that haven't been released before, what makes them to where they weren't released in the past, and that now is a good time. Again just the re release. These are stuff that I had found in my collection actually of you know, I have one of those huge tubs you put like you know, Christmas ornaments or stuff in in your garage you don't you only use once a year. I have like a tub in there, just filled, you know, with with mementos and things from from our past, and one of them is filled with just CDs and cassette tapes and test pressings or records, et cetera. And I found a CD from the from the Sessions, a bunch of demos and stuff that we had done at Rogers House prior to going to California to track the records. So that's what that's what's made in on here.

5:36 See. I love stuff like that because isn't kind of cool when you do go through like these tubs of things you've stored that are like from time a time pass and you open them up and it's like it's almost like you're getting birthday presents because you forgot you even had most of that stuff. Yeah, you know, I've I've tried to do away with a lot of those boxes. Those boxes you open up, you move five times and like there's this cord and there you're like, well, we don't use these anymore, but you know what I might need it someday. No, you don't throw it away, So I'm pretty organized here. I'm in my memento room. I have everything that lesson Jake's ever released in this room right here. Really, the only thing I have shoved in the closet are all those extra CDs, cassettes of remixes and demos and practice tapes and those things. And I don't think the practice cassettes are ever going to see the light of day, but we'll see.

6:27 You never know, you never know, and listen to it. It is funny. I've gone through that recently too, where I'm going through stuff that I've probably moved twenty times and like why am I saving this? But then there's other stuff that's gold, like what you're releasing on this reissue that is like, oh my god, this is cool. I need to do something with this. Well it's interesting too. You know. My mom was a big like she saved and sent it to me when I want to wait to call. She saved every birthday and Christmas card I got as a kid from all the revels she had him in books, and she sent me with all this stuff and at some point I just would purge it over the years, and I love you, Mom'm no offense but you know, you just start you stop having room for stuff. And I remember talking to Rob Cavallo, who was green produced all those Green Day records and signed Green Day. Rob produced a less than Jake record called Anthem, which was the follow up to Borders and Boundaries, and we were talking one day and I'm like, he was talking about this band he was in the eighties, and like, oh man, you gotta dig up some pictures and come in and show me. He's like, I don't have any. I go, what do you mean.

7:33 He's like, I don't have any pictures of me from yesterday. And I'm like, what are you talking about? Him? Like like you know, you think, like is this guy in the Witness Protection program or something? And I'm like, what are you talking about? He's like yeah, He's like at some point I just threw all that stuff out. He's like, I don't need pictures. All my memories are up here. And he was dead. He was dead serious, like anything yesterday's clutter, that's already gone. It's a cash check. I'm moving here. And I'll never forget that about him. And you'll notice I consider Rob at least a musical genius in the way that he thinks. And you'll notice that with people genius and severe autistic like that can do crazy stuff. They don't listen to the noise. They're like this tunnel vision going straight ahead. And I've thought about rob a lot over the years when I've been cleaning stuff.

8:22 Why am I hanging onto this for what? It doesn't serve me anymore? Get rid of it. And I'm a big believer too of that clutter. When you have that clutter, it clutters your mind. So to your point, if you're I think part of the reason is such an amazing musician is because there it's free in his head to be able to get creative. Yeah, I think so. You know, I know, when you know, sometimes negativity and strife can make a great song and create great art. I'll agree with that, but you know, everyday life, it doesn't bode well for. Me right exactly. So what else do we have going on here in twenty twenty six that we want to let the listeners know, Well, we're.

9:09 Going to be releasing some songs. We got offered some different projects this year, So we recorded a couple songs at the end of last year that we're gonna throw around and then we're collecting ideas, putting things together for a new record. We're kind of toying with doing an album. We're going to be over in Europe this summer playing festivals, of course, doing the Winter Circus UK run that's coming up here, and just staying busy doing what we do. You know, we're out there for I don't know, probably one hundred shows a year, still flying around doing our thing. Man, it's great. So I want to know as somebody that also goes to them as well as how do you compare the festivals in the UK, the festivals in Europe and the festivals in the US as an artist?

10:00 Yeah, you know, I will always prefer the UK festival. Just the mystique of all the books I read growing up and now getting to see a lot of the YouTube videos of reading and leads from the seventies and you know, reading about Deep Purple being there and White Snake and all these bands that I grew up listening to and then getting to play reading and leads and download and they're just class festivals. The enormity of it. You know, that was the first time I ever walked to a festival that big was was reading and leads, and because Lesson Jacob had played there and I had been to other you know, amphitheater festival shows, warped tours in the United States, so certainly I see a lot of people, but this was an enormity on another level.

10:46 When you looked at the main stage, it was like six stories tall and you're you know, the scaffolding, what is going on? Like this is you know, next level. So I'll say I'll go with the UK for still being my favorite. European festivals are dialed in, and there's great ones in the US, and there's also crappy festivals everywhere too. And that's for another podcast. That's totally true. That would actually make a good podcast episode. Oh my god, I could talk for hours. I'd be your first ten guests there you go. Yeah, everything from the rotten catering to the toilet accommodations. We could go on.

11:26 Oh yeah, And you know, I have to agree with you with the UK festivals. I love doing the UK festivals. That's a press person. I think the way they treat press too is like next level compared to anywhere else. It's like they make the job easier for the musician. For the press people and everybody crew and everybody involved. Yeah, you know, the UK is laid back in a sense where I wouldn't expect that that they the press at the festivals in the UK are held in better than anywhere in the world. That's just that's just a true, a true fact. So I agree with you. I've never been a journalist going in, but they're always organized as an artist, like you're going here for ten minutes, and they drag you to the next one boom boom boom.

12:13 Then then you're out. You're gonna go and enjoy lunch. So oh yeah, yeah, it's funny you should say that because it's kind of a peeve of mine because if I'm told, listen, you have ten minutes, I'm gonna be finished at nine fifty nine. Now, a lot of the US festivals, the person before you will go on for like thirty minutes, and it's like that domino effect. But I think also the media people in the UK at the festivals, they work together, like instead of all being separate and thees, it's like they all have each other's back. So it does run very smoothly, which is better for you guys, the artists, because listen, you are a tight time schedule, so you know, doing stuff like that, it's important that everybody be on time. And then just the way you're treated, like I've never heard anything bad said about anybody that runs a UK festival that I know of.

13:04 Yeah, no, again, I've you know, we we've had great experiences. So I'm sure there's bands out there that could could tell you otherwise, but UK has always been been awesome. And how about Fat rep Records because I love them, but I think it's really a testament to you know, when bands like you have been with them like forever, you know, because that that'sn't always happened. Well, yeah, so our last couple of records we've been on Pure Noise, but Fat has still does reissues and does does stuff for us. Of course we've done a couple of records with them. The original Borders and Boundaries was on Fat and Fat Records is now we're going to be re releasing our stuff with Hopeless because Fat is getting Yeah, Fat is gonna Fat is getting absorbed by Hopeless. I don't know exactly when that's going to happen, but yeah, Fat Records came along at a great time for less than Jake. We have recorded Borders and Boundaries for our third as our third Capitol Records release, so it was funded from Capital money and we got the mixes back. We still thought we were on Capitol and then we got dropped. And during this time, the president our a our person and you hear this a lot from bands that everyone was gone and we got to sign this this and our guy who had been Megadeth tour manager for years, I think he maybe managed megad that's for a little while, this guy, Ron Lafitte, and Ron came in and it just didn't you know, for us.

14:31 This guy came in and we were he was handed us and you know, didn't really know what to do with us is you could tell his heart wasn't in it. So when they decided to drop us, we were like, well, this is great. We got this record and Fat Mike picked it up immediately and stamped Fat Records on it, paid Capitol Records outright for the money they put into it, and it was the greatest thing that could have happened to us. In hindsight. At the time, we didn't really care because we had a fan base that we were touring on and luckily back then there was no such thing or thought of a three sixty deal, so we were just raking in at the box office building this career. It's like, oh, we're not in a major anymore, it doesn't matter. We're still going to pull into Detroit and there's going to be fifteen hundred kids there want to see us play. So no harm, no foul. But it was the greatest thing because we now had legitimacy as a punk band on Fat Records. Right when we went to Europe, it was like our audience doubled because we were on Fat Records, which was really ironic because Borders and Boundaries up to that point was our most commercially accessible record if you go listen to it. It was our cleanest production. We had some radio songs on there, and it wasn't that we were necessarily shooting for that.

15:42 You know, we didn't have any outside writers. It was all in house still. But we were growing and maturing, you know, we weren't just punk kids anymore. We were learning how to play our instruments. So it all worked out and it ended up being great. And speaking of that, like, it's funny, you say, learning how to play your instruments because it's so true. You know, with anybody that's been in punk, what does it feel like to play in a punk band now after being doing it for so long? What's the differences for you as a musician. Oh well, at some point I realized that nobody's ever commented about how much energy I have on stage. I was talking about the band's energy. But you know, they've never once said a man, Chris is jumping off drum risers, He's jumping up in the area, he's po going half the set. And I've always been athletic, I've always exercised.

16:39 I still do keep keeping shape, you know, cardio. And I realized at some point, no one's ever said anything because they don't care. You're beating the hell out of yourself for what. And I realized that once I wasn't hiding behind that anymore because I was a defense mechanism in the early days. I knew I wasn't that great, We weren't that great, So just jump around and go crazy. Everyone's drunk anyways, no one's going to give them give But you know, you want to get better at your at your your craft. And I realized that if I just moved a little bit less. I could still rock out. The cords are a little cleaner, I'm not as much out of breath, I could sing a little better. And so there was a little bit of that growth that's happened over the years. Taking care of myself during the day, you know, not burning my candles. I go to bed at home at the same time every night I get up, and that's now the same thing with you know, being on the road. I try to try to keep the same schedule.

17:40 Yeah, and you know, I love that you said that, because it is kind of true. I sometimes I look at musicians, specially the young ones, are doing what you're describing, and I'm like, man, how do they playing their guitar jumping around and flipping around like that? And I'm usually in awe. But then I listen to you and I'm like, well, that makes a lot of sense that you're actually going to be a better musician if you're actually well. Also, remember, you know, and this isn't any disrespect. A lot of the bands can go that crazy because they're using backing tracks today. That's just that's just a fact of of of modern music. We don't have backing tracks.

18:21 We're we're out there works and all that's what you get. And so if I'm going to be out there, uh you know, uh naked at the class play, I might as well be halfway decent. Absolutely, And see you you said something I talk about all the time, and I think a lot of people don't even realize when it comes to punk bands specifically, is that you know, you do want to hone in on your craft and become a better musician, like you want to grow a lot of times are hardcore fans as an artist, they want you to stay a garage band, but you as an artist, I mean, you're gonna want to grow if you're a true artist.

19:03 Yeah, I think so, you know, I think that there's you know, certainly, you know, Steve Jones is a better guitarist than he was in the seventies, you know for the pistols. But you know, how good do you want the pistols to be? You know what I mean? Like, how good do you want that to you know? So you have to be reminded of that it can't be too clean in pristine because I also know that that frenetic energy and that looseness is what got us to where we were at. You know. I mean, I can look back to videos and just there they're online and all the time. You know, once a year, I'll go to YouTube and just type in less than Jake nineteen ninety five, and inevitably, someone found a VHS tape in their mom's closet over Christmas and they uploaded it to YouTube, and I'm watching it and it's like an out of body experience. Man, I'll be I'm like, I know that's me.

19:50 I have no recollection of this, but there's a thousand kids losing their mind in Cleveland in this video, and I'm listening to the band with my eyes closed, going, oh, it's not that good, and in your eyes you're like, okay, as long as I don't have to listen to the band with my eyes in my ears, I can just listen with my eyes. It's you know, but it didn't matter. And it's also where we were always. We still are our own worst critics. You know. I can't tell you how many times I've gotten off stage and been like, man, I phoned it in tonight, or that sucked. I was awful and you got that kid standing there, or multiple those I've seen you twelve times. That was the best I've ever seen you and you're like, Okay, what do I know? Right? I love that feeling too, even I like, every time I get done with my radio show or I get done to an interview, I'm like, man, I fucking sucked, you know. Yeah, But then I got like, oh, that was the best review I've ever had. I'm like, oh really, and so yeah, I mean I get it too, And but you guys are badass. I love that Borders and Boundaries has a special twenty fifth anniversary reissue. Everybody has to go to Fat Records, Fat Wreck Records and go get it. Is there any other things that you want to let the listeners know that we haven't covered already.

21:08 It's about it. Go check out my podcast, Christy Makes a Podcast. It's a songwriting podcast where I interview guests from all genres of music to talk about one iconic song from their career. I've been doing it for six years and you can find out wherever you listen to podcasts. So thank you. I love it well. Thank you for making us great music all this time, and thanks for being on the Adventures of pipe Man right on. Thanks take care of my friend. Hey, it's Christal lesson Jake, and you're listening to Pipe Man on W four c UY Radio. Thank you for listening to the Adventures of Pipemin on W for CUI Radio.